More on Brexit

August 2021 Forums General discussion More on Brexit

Viewing 15 posts - 451 through 465 (of 472 total)
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  • #212906
    ALB
    Keymaster
    #212911
    robbo203
    Participant

    It looks like there is gonna be a Catalonia-style independence bid from Scotland in its quest to “take back our sovereignty” etc etc. Brexit has truly opened up a Pandora’s box

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1387989/snp-news-nicola-sturgeon-Scottish-independence-poll-Scotland-latest-holyrood

    #212912
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Regards IndyRef2 I will be curious to see the turn-out if it takes place.

    I was in the UK for the 2014 referendum and was genuinely surprised by the participation from both sides. Those registering to vote was an all time high, and remember this was when because of the poll-tax many had previously refused to go on the electoral register. The actual number of voters were also at a record high. Our own call for abstention was most definitely ignored.

    For such an important and emotional issue, i noticed that there were no reluctance to show your preference in stickers, badges and window posters. The Yes and No camps campaigned in the streets alongside one another without friction or animousity. There may have been isolated individual acts of political violence and the only significant occurrence was post-referendum when Rangers loyalists goaded nationalists in Glasgow, but considering the issue at stake, it was very peaceful.

    For a socialist committed to electoral process 2014 was a heartening event, and i would think it will reflect the enthusiasm of the campaigns for socialism when they take off in popularity. People were actively politically engaged and were enjoying the experience of participating. Everywhere there was debate and discussion.

    I think the reason was that this was a rare occasion where each person believed that his or her individual vote counted. They believed they held real political power in decision-making. That how they voted, yes or no, would make a real difference. Within British history, such days don’t come along too often (perhaps the 1945 was the closest.)

    #213296
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I suppose there could be a few British capitalists who will agree with the logic of leaving a huge market on their doorstep to concentrate on the furthest possible away market:

    UK applies to join trans-Pacific free trade bloc

    If I was a British capitalist I would regard the Brexit government currently in office as bonkers.

    #213301

    When are peoples going to understand that bourgeois nationalism is also capitalist international economic expansion? All that crap about antiglobalism, crony capitalism was created by the capitalists to obtain workers’ support for their own global strategy. Nobody can hold the bull by the horns. All the conspiracy theories and fancy expressions created by the capitalists and propagated by the left they are a smokescreen to cover the real social/economical reality

    https://www.rdwolff.com/how_capitalisms_dogged_defenders_and_propagandists_defend_it_from_criticism?utm_campaign=the_dogged_defense_o&utm_medium=email&utm_source=democracyatwork

    #213302

    Vietnam is the best example of the futility of national liberation and sovereignty. The Vietcong became the national ruling class of the Vietnamese workers and they have given their labor force in a silver plate to the international corporations including the USA. Another Leninist invention disguised as a Marxist or socialist principle to cover up their own nationalist point of view

    #213419
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Independence from the UK would cost Scotland’s economy up to three times as much in lost trade than Brexit will.

    https://www.ft.com/content/bbf2a097-37ff-42ea-8b22-c5662f0ae4be

    #213514
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    We all heard it during the referendum…vote against all that Brussels red tape.

    Now instead of a page or two of documentation, a lorry of fish requires 71 pages to be exported into the EU.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55887043

    #217629
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    No deal with the Norwegians on fishing rights

    No agreement with France either but instead threats to cut the Channel Islands electric off

    https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210504-france-warns-of-retaliatory-measures-over-post-brexit-fishing-rights

    #218067
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Farmers sceptical of government promises of protection from cheap food imports

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57157094

    #219101
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Looks as if that after all Boris didn’t get Brexit done like he said and won an election on the basis of it.

    He seems to have signed the Northern Ireland Protocol with no intention of implementing it, just so he could say he had got Brexit done.

    No wonder the EU are pissed off. They thought they had a signed agreement whose implications were known to both sides. But now they find out that the Britain is trying to wriggle out of it.

    All the arguments that Boris is using to try to get out of it were known before, that the unionists wouldn’t like it and might threaten to pull out of the Peace Process. As to sausages, you can’t take them into Australia either and won’t be under the proposed trade agreement with them.

    It remains to be seen if Boris really will push it to the point of provoking a trade war with the EU, stirring up the unionists as a bargaining chip

    #219103
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    I wonder if somebody can explain the implications of the NI situation for me and the respective attitudes of the two communities. I don’t quite grasp it.

    It seems that neither is happy for their own reasons but I am curious about what their future options and actions might be.

    #219114
    ALB
    Keymaster

    To prevent the re-erection of customs posts on the border between the two parts of Ireland, the withdrawal agreement and subsequent trade agreement provided that Northern Ireland should remain in the Single Market.

    This means that what is produced or sold there has to conform to the Singke Market regulations. These include provision for controls and checks on imports of certain foodstuffs. The understanding was that these controls should take place in “Irish Sea”, in practice either before leaving Great Britain or on entering Northern Ireland.

    When Theresa May brought back an agreement which included this Johnson denounced it as an affront to British sovereignty, and that there could/would never be customs controls between two integral parts of the United Kingdom, etc, etc, and the deal was scuttled thanks to him and the other hard core brexiteers.

    But the deal he got negotiated contained the same arrangements. Even so, he still went around saying that would be no controls between two parts of the UK, thus indicating, I think it can be inferred, that he had no intention of implementing it.

    A six month period of grace was granted from 1 January this year and so is due to expire, in a few weeks time, on 30 June. After that the agreement has to be implemented.

    The overall withdrawal agreement also provides that if one party does not implement the agreement the other party can impose proportionate sanctions, such as quotas on imports. Which the EU is indicating it might do if the UK doesn’t implement the agreement. Meanwhile Johnson is turning up the nationalist rhetoric.

    Of course both sides might just be manoeuvring to strengthen their negotiating position. There are plenty of compromises possible. Personally, I can’t see how Johnson can get out of implementing it. He will have to compromise.

    #219116
    Jack_higgon
    Participant

    The advantage Johnson has, which May didn’t, is that he’s operating from a poltical position of strength. He has a sufficiently large majority in the Commons that the DUP don’t have the sway over him which they had over May. Even if someone wanted to challenge Johnson over this, no other Tory has the popular support he does. I suspect Johnson will end up throwing NI under the bus in the name of Brexit, which is essentially an English nationalist project.

    #219137
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I am not sure whether he’d be throwing NI under the bus. The DUP and other hardline unionists, yes, but most other members of the Stormont assembly support the protocol, not just the nationalist Sinn Fein and the SDLP but also the Alliance Party and the Green Party.

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