Moderation Suggestions
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twc wrote:Suspension of Marcos:Re: http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/marx-and-automation?page=28#comment-43036 …moderator1 wrote:First warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.2nd warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.3rd and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.This warning will stay in place for the next 30 days. I this [sic] breaches the rules within this period he'll be immediately suspended.3rd [sic] and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.
This has been tactlessly handled.The author of the topic initiated the alleged “derail” — as in, MBellamare:“I see the advent of return to the dark ages… I call this the rise of micro-fascism…”Marcos can’t possibly “derail” a thread by responding to a claim made by the original author.Moderators might reconsider turning first warnings into recommendations, e.g.,“Your post on XXX is off-topic. To continue posting on XXX, please do so in a more-appropriate thread or start a new thread on XXX”.Most self-respecting writers would be tempted to defend themselves, as Marcos did, in the open, and to resist the ignominy of having to defend themselves in private against unexpected charges laid against themselves in public!Marcos has “derailed” nothing. He believes himself innocent of implied intent. As a result he has compounded his “offence” by openly defending his integrity.Marcos has taken his stance in the very same public arena in which his integrity was unfathomably impugned — in the open forum. Why should he grovel to private appeal and await private judgement?Serial derailment is one thing, but unintended derailment is quite another.Moderation is difficult, but something is wrong with its current implementation.
If anybody was Tactless it was Marcos by responding to an Off-topic. He then compounded the breach with further breaches. This is not the first time he's done this.
twc wrote:Suspension of Marcos:Re: http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/marx-and-automation?page=28#comment-43036 …moderator1 wrote:First warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.2nd warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.3rd and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.This warning will stay in place for the next 30 days. I this [sic] breaches the rules within this period he'll be immediately suspended.3rd [sic] and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.This has been tactlessly handled.The author of the topic initiated the alleged “derail” — as in, MBellamare:“I see the advent of return to the dark ages… I call this the rise of micro-fascism…”Marcos can’t possibly “derail” a thread by responding to a claim made by the original author.Moderators might reconsider turning first warnings into recommendations, e.g.,“Your post on XXX is off-topic. To continue posting on XXX, please do so in a more-appropriate thread or start a new thread on XXX”.Most self-respecting writers would be tempted to defend themselves, as Marcos did, in the open, and to resist the ignominy of having to defend themselves in private against unexpected charges laid against themselves in public!Marcos has “derailed” nothing. He believes himself innocent of implied intent. As a result he has compounded his “offence” by openly defending his integrity.Marcos has taken his stance in the very same public arena in which his integrity was unfathomably impugned — in the open forum. Why should he grovel to private appeal and await private judgement?Serial derailment is one thing, but unintended derailment is quite another.Moderation is difficult, but something is wrong with its current implementation.
What is even more 'wrong' is the fact that Marcus is trying to deal with Trolls, spammers and anti socialists, while the moderator lets them off scot free and even encourages and debates with them!!Moderation is difficult made more difficult by the actions of the moderator who has sole authority and has had that authority for too long for a democratic organisation
I tell you what made that thread incredibly difficult to read was not off-topic remarks but the unnecessary repetition of previous posts and the moderator was as guilty as anybody else.Quoting previous messages is necessary but not verbatim. Lets excise superfluous extracts.
alanjjohnstone wrote:I tell you what made that thread incredibly difficult to read was not off-topic remarks but the unnecessary repetition of previous posts and the moderator was as guilty as anybody else.Quoting previous messages is necessary but not verbatim. Lets excise superfluous extracts.I don't have the remit to cut posts I can only remind users of unnecessary repetition and if that don't work start issuing warnings. Its down to users to cut their posts which contain a full and rather long quote.
alanjjohnstone wrote:I tell you what made that thread incredibly difficult to read was not off-topic remarks but the unnecessary repetition of previous posts and the moderator was as guilty as anybody else.Quoting previous messages is necessary but not verbatim. Lets excise superfluous extracts.The Capitalist pre-conception of a the job of a moderator is to facilitate and assist the flow of information and communication. the Socialist Pre-Conception of the socially productive work of a moderator is [ you please tell me ].Didn't Marx say somethign about sufficiently advanced automation created by capitalism is required for socialism to work. In this case SPGB needs automation for managing discussions. Reddit, by comparision, manages to hide and show linked posts and discussion chaines with less human effort per unit of knowledge production or unit of communication exchanged. This is because Reddit has superior Automation that frees human mods from so much work and frees human contributors and commenters from so much difficulty formatting and sharing their ideas.It's just easier for a mod on reddit to accomplish more per hour than a mod at SPGB. Many functions that cause problems here such as off-topic or difficult to read comments have automated solutions or are more frequently designed using a nudge or default option that suggests people work towards an ideal solution and makes the ideal solution also the easiest solution for the commenter. It could be fairly said that the automation on a reddit descussion is in some way also authoritarian in nature insofar that it does not generally attempt to shift power to the end users except as an unintended consequence of efforts to make the mod more efficient. So for example mod warnings on reddit have a well understood and public yet, non-annoying way to be channeled into side conversations that are public and open to the public, but don't detract from the over all conversation and don't result in significant concerns about censorship etc. here is a list of the automated or semi-automated moderator powers and tools available to Reddit mods. . . https://www.reddit.com/wiki/moderation and some key relevant quotes to how moderation works on reddit for consideration of adoption by SPGB. . .
"from the Reddit page" wrote:"Check out the full documentation and the library of common rules for indepth explanations. Also check out /r/Automoderator to see how others are using it or for any questions you might have.What are best practices when interacting with users and other mods?Check out the Moddiquette an informal set of guidelines for moderators of reddit….What spam-prevention tools are at my disposal?There are three main queues for you to keep an eye on:Your "reports" queue (/r/SUBREDDIT/about/reports) shows items that users recently clicked the "report" button on.Your "spam" queue (/r/SUBREDDIT/about/spam) shows items that were removed, either by other moderators or by the automatic spam filter.To see both combined into a single listing, go to /r/SUBREDDIT/about/modqueue.If you moderate a lot of subreddits, you should know about /r/mod, a magical shortcut that combines all the subreddits you moderate into a single place. So the ultimate link to bookmark for all your moderation duties is… (drum roll please) /r/mod/about/modqueue.Go there as often as you can to check the spam filtered or reported items. You can click "spam" next to anything that you don't want on your subreddit. This will train your spam filter to remove those items in the future. If you don't want to train the spam filter to remove those, then click "remove." You can also click "approve" next to anything that was mistakenly flagged or reported. If you have a post or comment that is receiving multiple reports and you are sure it should remain approved you can click "ignore reports". This will stop any further reports from showing in your or your fellow moderators' modqueues.Why are some submissions and comments in my subreddit red / yellow?Sometimes you'll see a link or comment with a yellow "reports" badge on your subreddit. That means it's been reported by one or more redditors. The total number of reports will be displayed within this badge. See the spam section for more details on reported items.Posts and comments that have been removed (by the filter or another moderator) will be shaded in red. Posts and comments with a strike-through formatting on the text indicate that the submitter is posting under an admin-level ban, which means these posts and comments have already been removed but you are free to re-approve them.Why do some removed items not specify who removed them?They were automatically removed by the spam filter. You should review them, and approve them or confirm removal as needed. Each subreddit has its own spam filter which learns from its moderators' actions. Over time, it should get better and better at doing your work for you — but only if you correct it when it's wrong.What does that "approve" button do?Submissions that have not been removed by the spam filter, yourself or by the admin-level ban described above (and therefore can be seen by regular users) still retain an "approve" button. In this case, the button does two things when clicked: it removes the submission from the "unmoderated links" queue and it places a green checkmark next to the submission title, which gives you the name of the mod who approved the submission when you hover over it (the same checkmark appears when a moderator approves a removed post as well).When a submission has not been removed, the approve button has no visible effect for regular users of the subreddit. It was designed to help moderators make sure every single submission was checked by someone.". . .AppearanceIs there a limit to the number of CSS images I can upload?The limit appears to be 50.Is there a limit to the maximum file size of CSS images I can upload?The limit is 500k. Trying to upload bigger images does not result in an error message, but simply never finishes.Is there a character limit on my CSS?It appears that you will begin experiencing difficulty saving the custom CSS as you approach 100,000 total characters.Are there any restrictions on what I can do with my subreddit's CSS?You can find the subreddit appearance guidelines here and a complete styling guide can be found here.p.s. This is not an endoresement of Reddit and I am simply using Redit as a detailed functional example of the automation marx anticipated would be produced by capitalism that would be relevant to socialism. On a personal note, I like this early 2000 style discussion board precisely because it's difficult to use and difficult to search and difficult in general. the inherent barriers to communication presented by this discussion forum automation impede the free flow of information in a way that is beneficial for me to use in testing new ideas here without concern that those ideas might spread to the general population such as reddit. I would not dare discuss the implications and details of a sliding scale price tag as a form of automation that would be a pre-condition to socialism on Reddit, because the idea could spread too quickly and be taken and used by others in ways I don't intend or approve of and by people I don't approve of. Reddit has very low barriers to communication compared to this forum and that makes Reddit a dangerous place to share dangerous ideas. So I am in no way suggesting SPGB should switch to using a Reddit automation solution.
moderator1 wrote:alanjjohnstone wrote:I tell you what made that thread incredibly difficult to read was not off-topic remarks but the unnecessary repetition of previous posts and the moderator was as guilty as anybody else.Quoting previous messages is necessary but not verbatim. Lets excise superfluous extracts.I don't have the remit to cut posts I can only remind users of unnecessary repetition and if that don't work start issuing warnings. Its down to users to cut their posts which contain a full and rather long quote.
Moderator. you have an almost impossible job and my sympathy on this issue. i think that myself and many others may simply be unnaware of your problem or the solution you worked out that requires contributors to activily work for the benefit of others convenience by manually editing their long quotes. One failure of the automation is that this isn't communicating it's limitations clearly to the posters/contributors who simply need this explanation provided to them. I personally didn't understand or realize that you expected or require users to cut their own quotes down or that doing so would be benefiical. I had the pre-conception and believed as most people that truncating the quote might be viewed negatively as a form of de-contextualizing and taking out of context and arrouse suspicion. in most automation systems I am familiar and practiced with, there is no need for manually editing quotes and the automation solutions such as facebook will automatically move most of the words out of sight and replace them with a link that reads "more". Clicking on the link expands the longer text for reading in it's entirety.
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:Moderator. you have an almost impossible job and my sympathy on this issue. i think that myself and many others may simply be unnaware of your problem or the solution you worked out that requires contributors to activily work for the benefit of others convenience by manually editing their long quotes. One failure of the automation is that this isn't communicating it's limitations clearly to the posters/contributors who simply need this explanation provided to them. I personally didn't understand or realize that you expected or require users to cut their own quotes down or that doing so would be benefiical. I had the pre-conception and believed as most people that truncating the quote might be viewed negatively as a form of de-contextualizing and taking out of context and arrouse suspicion. in most automation systems I am familiar and practiced with, there is no need for manually editing quotes and the automation solutions such as facebook will automatically move most of the words out of sight and replace them with a link that reads "more". Clicking on the link expands the longer text for reading in it's entirety.Now you are aware of the problem does this mean I can look forward to much shorter posts from yourself?
moderator1 wrote:Now you are aware of the problem does this mean I can look forward to much shorter posts from yourself?yes.
Many specific topics are being taken out of track. We do not have any serious discussion in this forum. This is a forum to educate potential members of the Socialist Party who want to know about the socialist case, but this place looks like a centre for cockfights. The proper department in charge of this forum or internet should discuss this matter in a very serious manner. We have too many trolls, you have two solutions: 1) To correct the problem, 2) To expel them from the forum
My attitude to women is disgusting, not discusting. And I never abuse anyone – you dildo.
As an example LBird has NO argument so he abuses members. Abuse should not be tolerated. Another example is Bob Andrews. He has said NOTHING constructive and is homophobic and his attitude to women is disgusting. Then there are the spammers.Not only is all this restricting reasonable discussion but it is turning us into a laughing stock. I am afraid to start a discussion from fear of abuse from one of these arseholes and I am afraid of what I might say to them.Marcos, the single mod we have needs a hand I nominate you for the mods jobHow can Mod have the remit to suspend party members but not the remit to sort this problem out? I am incredulous.
Bob Andrews wrote:My attitude to women is disgusting, not discusting. And I never abuse anyone – you dildo.It beats me how stalker, pervert and a coward like yourself has not been removed from the forum. Perhaps moderation can enlighten us.
Tue, 26/09/2017 – 1:18pm#251 Bob Andrews2nd warninng: 7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Forum members are free to discuss moderator’s decisions on a separate thread set up for that purpose but should not discuss moderator’s decisions on the main forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.
Tue, 26/09/2017 – 1:39pm#252Vin 1st Warning: 7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Forum members are free to discuss moderator’s decisions on a separate thread set up for that purpose but should not discuss moderator’s decisions on the main forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal. Top
Mod you are only giving your friend a warning to justify giving me one. It is so obvious. Any other forum moderator would have removed this abusive Troll a long time ago.You have allowed this troll to abuse members without taking action untill I respond to defend myselfffs stop embarrassing the partyYou are treating me with less respect than a fucking stalking troll. Resign
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