Local Election Campaign 2017

April 2024 Forums World Socialist Movement Local Election Campaign 2017

Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 172 total)
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  • #126254
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    I forgot the most damaging impact of their behaviour…it destroys the morale of other members who put in a great amount of effort in their activity to maintain a coherent and cogent case for socialism. 

    #126255
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    alanjjohnstone wrote:
    I'm betting those on Facebook threatening to vote Labour are Central Branch members…Or am i mistaken? If i am, i do hope their branches take the appropriate action, ASAP.

    Then you'd lose your bet, Alan.  The "threatening" members, and there are now at least three of 'em, are not, to the best of my knowledge, Central Branch members.  One of the three, I know for a fact, is a fairly regular attendee at a branch; not sure about the other two as their branches do not make minutes "freely available".However, I don't see how branches can taken action against a member merely making a threat to vote for another political party.  We need something more concrete than that.

    #126256
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Well said, Alan. I agree.  

    #126257
    ALB
    Keymaster
    gnome wrote:
    ALB wrote:
    That's going too far. The member who voted for the SDP only got hanged.

    No drawing and quartering then? 

    Voluntary exile would be the lesser evil, an argument they will surely understand. That is, if anyone does actually vote Labour rather than simply discussing whether or not to.  Why we shouldn't is an argument worth going over but asking questions about it is not something that is out of order in itself. It's only actually voting Labour (or  anti-Labour as for Seaham Popular Front)  that would be.There is another aspect to this. The fact that even a few of our own members are questioning this is a sign of a change in the mood of critics of capitalism. After all, we never had this discussion when Blair and Brown were the Labour Party leaders. No member even dreamed of voting Labour in 2001, 2005 or 2010.The Green Party, apparently has the same problemwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-40110713and, despite being wishy-washy and touchy-feely, don't let it pass ….

    #126258
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    There is another aspect to this. The fact that even a few of our own members are questioning this is a sign of a change in the mood of critics of capitalism. After all, we never had this discussion when Blair and Brown were the Labour Party leaders. No member even dreamed of voting Labour in 2001, 2005 or 2010.

    Then maybe a partywide discussion on our basic principles. If these members think the SPGB is now surplus to requirements because  Corbyn has come along then they should fuck off and join the Labour Party. ALL capitalist governments murder workers as well as administer exploitation. When Labour continues the 'fight on terrorism'  by murdering children I will be breathing down their necks.  

    #126259
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    ALB wrote:
    There is another aspect to this. The fact that even a few of our own members are questioning this is a sign of a change in the mood of critics of capitalism. After all, we never had this discussion when Blair and Brown were the Labour Party leaders. No member even dreamed of voting Labour in 2001, 2005 or 2010.

    I think there's a far simpler explanation.  Corbyn comes over as being far more radical than Blair and Brown ever did.  So much so it seems that even some of our own 'inexperienced' members have been taken in by the rhetoric.

    #126260
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    i said

    Quote:
    Publically making it known that you are supporting a rival political party with your vote

    Gnome said

    Quote:
    I don't see how branches can taken action against a member merely making a threat to vote for another political party.  We need something more concrete than that.

    The transgression as i saw it was publicising your intentions, whether carried out or not, is action covered by Rule 6,  "…write or speak for any other political party except in opposition, or otherwise assist any other political party."Since the vote is a secret one, what is required is a confession of voting Labour but i don't think we have an Inquisition to extract one, if those members are reluctant to reveal what transpired in the privacy of the polling booth. I'm not sure if you mean the political situation has deteriorated, ALB, that even members are becoming desperate or that the quality of membership of the Party is becoming unsound.

    #126261
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster
    Quote:
    The fact that even a few of our own members are questioning this is a sign of a change in the mood of critics of capitalism.

    I misinterpreted the intent of your comment, ALB.If members have been taken in with the rhetoric and the new "possiblism" of a Corbyn left-wing government, there has indeed been a sea-change in the quality of the socialist understanding. It won't be a Party-wide discussion that is required but some basic classes in socialist politics needed

    #126262
    ALB
    Keymaster
    gnome wrote:
    I think there's a far simpler explanation.  Corbyn comes over as being far more radical than Blair and Brown ever did.  So much so it seems that even some of our own 'inexperienced' members have been taken in by the rhetoric.

    Something like that was what I was trying to say. We know that one or two have already left to join the Labour Party.

    #126263
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    The Banksters support Labour and Corbynhttp://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/jp-morgan-says-strong-labour-showing-in-vote-could-support-sterling-1.3107591

    Quote:
     JP Morgan is suggesting a stronger Labour showing could, contrary to the prevailing market view, help support sterling. The rationale being that a centre-left coalition of Labour, the Scottish Nationalists and the Liberal Democrats would push Britain towards a softer Brexit, a better scenario for the UK economy in the bank’s view. JP Morgan strategists believe a Tory win, whatever the size, will see the country leave the single market and the customs’ union with negative consequences for UK trade.
    #126264
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Corbyn hasn't even waited to be elected before changing his rhetoric. Now he wants more money spent on the police. He wants  trade unions to work with industry. Same old Labour rubbish. We work 'hand in hand'  with our exploiters. No wonder he is going up in the polls . He will do a great job placating  workers.These members who have decided to vote Labour are very naive and IMHO cannot understand capitalism. Why did they join the World Socialist Movement if they thought the slaughter house could be run in the interests of the cattle?Did they never learn that Slavery requires slaves?

    #126265
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Why is it that party members  are free to support Labour but a member will be expelled for opposing Labour? 

    #126266
    Vin wrote:
    Why is it that party members  are free to support Labour but a member will be expelled for opposing Labour? 

    BTW, I notice that the councillor has failed to declare his membership of the Socialist Party: https://democracy.durham.gov.uk/ecSDDisplay.aspx?NAME=SD2385&ID=2385&RPID=6040762.

    #126267
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Young Master Smeet wrote:
    Vin wrote:
    Why is it that party members  are free to support Labour but a member will be expelled for opposing Labour? 

    BTW, I notice that the councillor has failed to declare his membership of the Socialist Party: https://democracy.durham.gov.uk/ecSDDisplay.aspx?NAME=SD2385&ID=2385&RPID=6040762.

    Yes YMS, he is named and shamed but John Bisset, Paula Donelly and Lorna Steven all declared publicly their support for Labour Party and their intention to vote for the Labour Party yet there is a pathetic response to this.No 'expel him!' and 'I refuse to call him comrade' declarations as declared agains Comrade Colborn.FYI  Paula Donnelly Yes But working class has a choice – Tory, Labour, SNP – or SPGB. Fuck it, I'm voting Labour cos I want not the Tory and the SPGB are far away from being elected Like · Reply · June 4 at 1:51pmRemoveJohn Bissett Does there exists a single SPGBer who secretly does not want Corbyn to win this election? True, he's the leader of a capitalist party and I wrote a lengthy piece about him and Clause 4 for the Standard a while back, but I, for one, am set to get a right fucking kicking if the Tories take power. I'm not into reformist politics, but I rather like and am highly dependent on the NHS and my local GP – due to personal medical reasons, which are threatened by a Tory victory – and Corbyn poses no threat to workers'/human rights the way May does. Personally, I'll not be voting here – Labour in my Jarrow seat will probably get a 27,000 majority, though if this was a swing seat, I'd vote Corbyn. Neither would I view this as an act of class betrayal. The difference between Corbyn and May has gone beyond the lesser of two evils debate. May really has to go – she has gone beyond anything Thatcher would have pulled.Like · Reply · 2 · June 4 at 7:56pmRemove 

    #126268
    Major McPharter
    Participant

    I have known Steve colborn for over 35 years, i am quite sure that he will put the case for socialism at every opportunity. Whether the other councillors like it or not they will not be able to shut him up.

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