Is Capitalism collapsing?

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  robbo203 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #85218

    robbo203
    Participant

    Wolfgang Streeck on why capitalism is collapsing and nothing is rising to replace it

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/end-capitalism-and-end-our-world#.WGtXqkVMADE.facebook

    Barring some external catastrophe the unfortunate fact is that capitalism is not going to collapse precisely because there is nothing yet on the horizon to replace it.  I commented on the article referring to the SPGB's 1932 pamphlet

    #124248

    gnome
    Participant
    robbo203 wrote:
    Wolfgang Streeck on why capitalism is collapsing and nothing is rising to replace ithttp://www.alternet.org/economy/end-capitalism-and-end-our-world#.WGtXqkVMADE.facebookBarring some external catastrophe the unfortunate fact is that capitalism is not going to collapse precisely because there is nothing yet on the horizon to replace it.  I commented on the article referring to the SPGB's 1932 pamphlet
    robbo203 wrote:
    Wolfgang Streeck is unfortunately mistaken, Capitalism is not collapsing nor is it ever likely to "collapse" in that sense save by the intervention of some external catastrophe such as an ecological breakdown of nuclear conflict. But there is no internal mechanism, such as the falling rate of profit, that will ensure capitalism's collapse. Capitalism has to be consciously and politically abolished, That is precisely why capitalism will continue for the time being – there is nothing rising at the moment to replace itPeople who make these dramatic claims about capitalism generally dont seem to understand what is meant by capitalism. A shorthand way of describing capitalism is a system of generalised wage labour and one in which production for the market with a view to profit prevails. There are different variants of capitalism from the laissez faire model right through to the state capitalism of the old Soviet Union, So often capitalism is mistaken for neoliberalism – as if eliminating neoliberalism will remove the problems that capitalism generates. It wont.Wolfgang Streeck ought to have read that classic landmark pamphlet published by the Socialist Party of Great Britain in 1932 – Why Capitalism will not collapse. Here is the link to it http://www.worldsocialism.org/…The economic outlook back then appeared even worse than it is today. The SPGB warned those who said that capitalism would imminently collapse that their claim was groundless. History has vindicated this position
    #124249

    LBird
    Participant
    SPGB 1932 wrote:
    The Socialist Party of Great Britain answers those questions in this small pamphlet. The answer is worth the consideration of every working man or woman, as it concerns the great social problem—the problem of poverty. Our views on the crisis are set out here with the hope that workers who read them may be led on to study more seriously the principles of Socialism. One great obstacle has first to be overcome. The worker, seeing the inability of the experts to agree among themselves, may doubt his own capacity to understand the problem that other and seemingly wiser heads have found so baffling. Do not be put off by that idea. Working men and women, who make and tend the wonderful machinery of modern industry, and who carry out the intricate operations of trade and finance, have powers of thought that are well able to grasp the basic problems of politics and economics. We who address you are also workers, and we know that only the lack of desire and of confidence has hitherto prevented the mass of the workers from thinking these things out for themselves.The reader is asked to remember that this pamphlet is not merely the opinion of an individual—it is the view of the Socialist Party.

    [my bold]How did the SPGB get from such a good perspective in 1932, to the anti-democratic, anti-worker, pro-elite 'specialist' nonsense of 2017?

    #124250

    anonymous
    Member
    LBird wrote:
    How did the SPGB get from such a good perspective in 1932, to the anti-democratic, anti-worker, pro-elite 'specialist' nonsense of 2017?

    The simple answer to that is LBird's strawmen, aunt sallies and distortions. The SPGB's position has not changed 

    #124251

    mcolome1
    Participant
    LBird wrote:
    SPGB 1932 wrote:
    The Socialist Party of Great Britain answers those questions in this small pamphlet. The answer is worth the consideration of every working man or woman, as it concerns the great social problem—the problem of poverty. Our views on the crisis are set out here with the hope that workers who read them may be led on to study more seriously the principles of Socialism. One great obstacle has first to be overcome. The worker, seeing the inability of the experts to agree among themselves, may doubt his own capacity to understand the problem that other and seemingly wiser heads have found so baffling. Do not be put off by that idea. Working men and women, who make and tend the wonderful machinery of modern industry, and who carry out the intricate operations of trade and finance, have powers of thought that are well able to grasp the basic problems of politics and economics. We who address you are also workers, and we know that only the lack of desire and of confidence has hitherto prevented the mass of the workers from thinking these things out for themselves.The reader is asked to remember that this pamphlet is not merely the opinion of an individual—it is the view of the Socialist Party.

    [my bold]How did the SPGB get from such a good perspective in 1932, to the anti-democratic, anti-worker, pro-elite 'specialist' nonsense of 2017?

    L Bird likes to open his mouth without checking the facts or the evidences, that  is call a liar. The stand of the Socialist Party has been the same all the time.

    #124252

    LBird
    Participant

    So, neither of you can read your own party's publications?No wonder you can't understand what the issues are.Heads back in sand, eh?

    #124253

    LBird
    Participant
    SPGB, 1932, wrote:
    The choice is before you; only knowledge, desire and self-confidence are needed to realise the free society of the future. Place not your trust in others, but be assured that the work there is to do must be done by yourselves.

    That was the SPGB, in 1932."Place your trust in experts, and be assured that the work there is to do must be done by specialists"This is the SPGB, in 2017.

    #124254

    LBird
    Participant

    It comes to something when I can quote the earlier SPGB in support of my political positions, and the membership still refuse to read them, and merely heap insults on what I write.No wonder youse won't read Marx, or any of the other dozens of thinkers that I've referred to.

    #124255

    rodmanlewis
    Member
    LBird wrote:
    How did the SPGB get from such a good perspective in 1932, to the anti-democratic, anti-worker, pro-elite 'specialist' nonsense of 2017?

    I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are saying?!

    #124256

    moderator1
    Member

    Reminder: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts. 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).

    #124257

    mcolome1
    Participant

    http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1960s/1969/no-776-april-1969/marx-and-engels-and-collapse-capitalism Marx and Engels and the Collapse of capitalismhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/why-capitalism-will-not-collapseWhy capitalism will not collapse

    #124258

    mcolome1
    Participant

    SPGB: Rosa Luxemburg and the collapse of capitalismhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1960s/1969/no-773-january-1969/rosa-luxemburg-and-collapse-capitalism

    #124259

    mcolome1
    Participant

    Adam Buick: Anton Pannekoek and the Collapse of Capitalismhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1934/collapse.htm

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