Guyana territory

February 2024 Forums General discussion Guyana territory

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  • #248833
    Almamater
    Participant

    https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/world-court-orders-venezuela-refrain-action-border-dispute-with-guyana-2023-12-01/

    Another territory claim and dispute between two capitalist states

    This time the claim is made by a leftist government. Guyana possess oil and minerals

    The world has been divided in parcels known as nation-state by the capitalist class creating conflicts among human beings

    https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231201-brazil-army-intensifies-border-operations-as-venezuela-guyana-territory-dispute-heats-up. Brazilian army intensifies border operation as Venezuela Guyana territory dispute heats up

    The government of Venezuela also claim that the US wants to establish military bases in Guyana, this is another conflict where the US capitalists might take some participation. Capitalism will not provide peace to mankind

    • This topic was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Almamater.
    #248835
    Almamater
    Participant

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/americas/venezuela-essequibo-referendum-guyana-intl/index.html

    Venezuelans will vote Sunday in a referendum to decide whether the country should create its own state within a large swath of its oil-rich neighbor Guyana – a move that has been denounced by Guyana as a step towards annexation and raised concerns of a possible military conflict between the two South American nations.

    #248846
    Almamater
    Participant

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/venezuela-oil-guyana-essequibo-vote-nicolas-maduro

    This is not a holy or promised land, but it has oil and minerals like the Orinoco Basin

    #248848
    ALB
    Keymaster

    More on this from the other side:

    https://www.csis.org/analysis/guyana-oil-politics-and-great-expectations

    The irony of the situation is that the present president of Guyana is a member of the Peoples Progressive Party whose founder, Dr Jagan, was said to have been a Marxist.

    “Jagan has been labelled as communist or Marxist by many different sources.(…) In a discussion with V.S. Naipaul, Jagan elaborated on his appreciation of Marxist literature. (…) In 1984, Jagan stated that “I am not only fighting for the people of Guyana. I am fighting for the people of the world. I am contributing to that struggle. That struggle is winning. That is why the United States is so hysterical at the moment, because of that very fact, that what I stand for is winning”. Jagan also went on to claim in 1990 that it was socialism in Eastern Europe which was failing, rather than communism, and stated that “Communism, as a system, has not been tried in any country as yet, and remains a highly moralistic and humanistic ideal and destination.” If Jagan was a Marxist, he would have been the first democratically elected Marxist in the Western Hemisphere, ahead of Chilean leader Salvador Allende.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddi_Jagan

    #248850
    Almamater
    Participant

    Grenada marks 40 years since the assassination of revolutionary leader Maurice Bishop

    Also Maurice Bishop the president of Grenada declared himself a Marxist-Leninist, but he was a nationalist like all the others leftist leaders including Fidel Castro, Domingo Peron, Manolo Tavares, Cardenas, Sandino and Zapatas, and Juan Bosh said that he was Marxist but he was not a Leninist. Chile before Salvador Allende had several leaders who called themselves socialists

    Venezuelan communists fear Maduro will suspend presidential election over Guyana dispute

    The Communist Party of Venezuela has declared that the referendum is only a patriotic political distraction, applying the same tactic used by Hugo Chavez and his followers

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Michael-Manley

    Another so called socialist and Marxist president from the Caribbean

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Almamater.
    #248851
    Almamater
    Participant

    The irony of the situation is that the present president of Guyana is a member of the Peoples Progressive Party whose founder, Dr Jagan, was said to have been a Marxist.
    ==============================================================================
    It shows that taking sides in any inter capitalist conflict is taking side with a ruling class, it is the same case of the Palestine/Israel conflict

    #248853
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Also shows that Marxism and Nationalism don’t mix. You are either one or the other. People like Jagan were nationalists disguised as Marxists rather than Marxists who went off the rails over nationalism.

    #248858
    Wez
    Participant

    ALB – Don’t you think that we should be more careful using terms like ‘Marxism’ and Marxist’? They imply ideologies that some how differ or are associated with socialism – which is why Marx himself flatly denied that he was a ‘Marxist’. I think the term Marxian is more appropriate since it emphasizes that it represents a type of analysis rather than an ideology, which ironically, was its whole raison d’etra.

    #248860
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Yes, that’s a valid point that we have in fact made on a number of occasions. The trouble is we have used the term “Marxism” so many times ourselves in the past, even if in the sense of a type of analysis, that we can’t be too insistent about taking to task those who use it.

    #248861
    Almamater
    Participant

    The argument about Marxist and Marxism instead of Marxian is correct, but the only way to debunk those nationalists and state capitalists is by using the term Marxist and Marxism because they wrongly call themselves Marxists,

    They do not know that Marx was not a marxist, and he did not create a current known as Marxism, it was a term created by Bakunin, and used by Engels and some collaborators of Marx, as well they do not know that Lenin was an apologist of state capitalism, and that he was not a communist

    Probably the term socialism should not be used either because it has been discredited by those nationalists, state capitalists, and supporters of dictatorship, wars, nationalism/patriotism, and national liberation.

    The concept of third world is not used appropriately either, it meant not aligned with the US and the soviet bloc during the Cold War period, but most ‘third world’ countries supported either one

    #248863
    Wez
    Participant

    Almamater – ‘Probably the term socialism should not be used either because it has been discredited by those nationalists, state capitalists, and supporters of dictatorship, wars, nationalism/patriotism, and national liberation.’
    Don’t you mean ‘distorted’ rather than ‘discredited’? We must not give up ground to those who use language in such an Orwellian fashion. Such usage of language always betrays the fact that those who use it do not know what they are talking about and emphasizes how important it is that the integrity of our main way to communicate (language) must be defended.

    #248864
    Almamater
    Participant

    Don’t you mean ‘distorted’ rather than ‘discredited’?
    ————————————————————
    Now, you are using the expression Don’t you …….. For me, it has been discredited because most workers believe that socialism/communism is dictatorship, they do not know that it has been distorted because they do not know the meaning of real socialism. The important issue is that there is a possible confrontation between Guyana and Venezuela

    #248865
    Wez
    Participant

    ‘Now, you are using the expression Don’t you’
    I have no idea what that means.

    ‘For me, it has been discredited because most workers believe that socialism/communism is dictatorship, they do not know that it has been distorted because they do not know the meaning of real socialism.’
    Er, well that’s our job to correct this.

    ‘The important issue is that there is a possible confrontation between Guyana and Venezuela’
    Workers have no interest in this dispute between capitalists.

    #248872
    Lizzie45
    Participant

    I have no idea what that means

    And I’ve no idea who’s saying what in that jumbled-up post.

    Why can’t posters use BBCodes or other means of distinguishing between quoted text and their responses – it’s not rocket science!

    #248879
    Almamater
    Participant

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/04/venezuela-referendum-2023-results-guyana-region-claim-succeeds-sovereignty-essequibo
    The referendum was approved according to the Venezuelan government electoral center but some sources have indícated that there was a low participation which means that it was approved by a minority of voters

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