Freud and Marxism.
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BD – In the second part of your Freudian critique you seem to suggest that I accepted all of his theories. This couldn’t be further from the truth as I regard him as, in many ways, very bourgeois in his ideology and it is only when combined with Marx’s work that it can be helpful in the political struggle. One of his greatest mistakes, and I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned it, is his disbelief of all of the many reports of sexual abuse by fathers as reported by his female patients. His middle class values could not countenance such a reality.
Freud and Marx: do they mix?
Besides the Frankfurt School, Franz Fanon tried to mix Marx and Freud.
He tried to explain colonialism and racism by applying Freudian concepts; the racialist theory has been proven to be wrong, and African colonialism did not take place because they were blacks. The African ruling class is exploiting the African workers
Again, this seems like the immature being ridiculous. (Not you. I mean the mixers).
As materialists, we know the causes of racism etc. are within capitalism and its divide and rule practices. Racism was originally justification for the slave trade.
A true understanding of psychoanalysis is to see it as an attempt to help the victims, in terms of neuroses and mental illness, of the capitalist system, whilst recognising that the only real cure is the abolition of this socio-economic system. A Marxist psychoanalyst would know this and proclaim it, as did Wilhelm Reich.
That is the only “mixing” that makes sense. One wouldn’t use a spanner for writing a letter.
If one can locate it, “Sex in a Free Society”, article by party member Ernst Fleischmann, is a genuine Marxist presentation of psychoanalysis. Comrade Fleischmann was (is?) a reichian therapist and SPGB member.
I wrote rather a long reply to Wez’s post 266529. When I posted it it disappeared and didn’t come onto the message board. This has happened before and then the message has finally come on. It may be that it has been somehow filtered out as it makes some comments about TM’s strange discussion about what little lads may or might do around the age of 5 years old. I’d appreciate if the Mods could have a quick check to see if they have any idea where the post went.
Rather than repeat the who thing at this point in time, I would make the point about Wez’s point about Freud’s early seduction theory (Verführungstheorie) which was developed in the mid-1890s hypothesis proposing that hysteria and obsessional neurosis were caused by repressed memories of early childhood sexual abuse. I have kind of alluded to this to already. As Freud revised this theory (which clearly now seems to actually to hold at least some water) with his psychosexual stages theory it leads to several questions. Did Freud move on from his original theory and develop a theory which put the possible sexual abusers in the clear (and provided a get out clause for generations of abusers) because of genuine dissatisfaction with his original hypothesis or did he do this because he realised that his original theory put him directly in the line of sight of his paymasters, threatening his burgeoning career, financial well being and future career. If, as I suspect, that this was due to the latter, not only does that make him an intellectual fraud, it also makes him a moral coward.
Regardless of this, it does give even greater proof that his whole sections of his theoretical system, predicated on the psycho sexual stages are built on foundations of sand.
Sex in a free society
From the Winter 1985-6 issue of the World SocialistGreat. Thank you Piers.
BD, I was saying that children have sexual feelings long before puberty. They have romantic feelings and fantasies which we know are sexual, as Freud knew, without any adult interference or abuse, long before they know anything about the sexual act, and without requiring genital focus.
Their fantasies and romances will of course be informed by the culture they are growing up in, namely the children’s culture around them, comics, films etc.
TM – “They have romantic feelings and fantasies which we know are sexual, as Freud knew, without any adult interference or abuse, long before they know anything about the sexual act, and without requiring genital focus.”
How do you know this, what research supports this? (by the way I strongly suggest you
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DO NOT
carry out a google search using these terms!!!)
This is the Freudian methodology, take an observation (children sometimes play with their genitals) and then build an unsupported anecdotal theory based on their own inferences regarding intra psychic processes (thinking, feeling, fantasies, etc.) which by definition you do not have access to. You cannot say with any form of certainty what anyone else is thinking, feeling or fantasising about, it is all supposition. Every part of what you have written is based on your own suppositions, and inferences. Have you interviewed children to find out what their fantasies are? Have you carried out longitudinal studies of children’s behaviours and what children report about their behaviours. I fear the answer is no. Just the usual unsupported inferences. And on the basis of these unsupported inferences, Freud created a whole edifice of the ridiculous psycho sexual stages model and then the Oedipus and Electra complexes, all built to fit in with the fashion at the time of Ancient Greek Drama revivals. It is known that Freud attended performances of Oedipus Rex in Paris and Vienna, which received rapturous receptions. You can never accuse Freud of missing out on jumping on a bandwagon when one came his way.
What is amazing that grown up socialists are still falling from the hog wash that Freud sold. The bourgeois writings of a theory that fitted in beautifully with the ideas of the ruling class of the time. Psychodynamic theory is based on the idea that humans are in mental turmoil at all times, that they are in conflict from the moment of birth, ignoring the huge weight of evidence that human beings are cooperative and harmonious most of the time. Millions upon millions of people live cooperatively and supportive despite the conditions we live in.
Can I suggest it is time for you, TM and Wez, to cast aside Freud’s Victorian Penny Dreadful fantasies and update your knowledge with theoretical perspectives that actually fit more closely with the real nature of the human condition, which recognise that human beings, and in fact nearly all mammals are evolved to seek out nurture and to offer nature to our offspring. Theories which has support from long term studies, that recognise that children’s lives and experiences are not limited to idle speculation about the existence or non existence of childhood sexual fantasy and which continue to be supported by on going studies on neurological examination of the human brain via MRI, CT scans, etc. evolutionary theory, etc.
Can I suggest you start by learning the basics of Attachment Theory, (maybe start by browsing through Bowlby’s ground breaking work “The Making and Breaking of Affectional Bonds”), if you want to try and understand some of the interactions we have with each other you may also learn a little more about Transactional Analysis (Try Berne’s “What do You Say After You Say Hello” and if you have any really desire to look at psychology, development, psychiatry from a radical point of you read through the work of Berne’s collaborator Claude Steiner.
I know it because I was a child.
https://www.fatherly.com/health/masturbation-what-is-normal-kids-when-parents-should-worry
AI Overview
A child romance typically refers to a young, innocent crush or affection between children, or stories that explore youthful bonds in literature and film.Characteristics of Childhood Romance
• Innocence and Simplicity: Early crushes usually focus on simple moments like holding hands, sharing snacks, or walking home from school.
• Social Learning: These connections help children learn basic social rules, empathy, and how to navigate feelings outside the immediate family.
• Parental Guidance: Healthy limits (such as schoolwork focus, curfews, and open communication) help keep early friendships grounded and positive.Popular Depictions in Film and Media
Many classic family and coming-of-age movies capture the bittersweet, nostalgic feel of young affection:
• Flipped (2010)
• Bridge to Terabithia (2007)
• My Girl (1991)
• Little Manhattan (2005)
(Note: In psychological or literary terms, “family romance” can also refer to Sigmund Freud’s concept of a child’s subconscious fantasy about their parents and social standing, or adult romance subgenres that feature children or single parents in the main plot).I think many adults fail in perspicacity and remembrance of their childhoods.
Not everything in me comes from books / other person sources. My philosophy has developed from my own experiences, and I have subsequently come into contact with writers and thinkers who confirm what I already know from my own experience.
BD -I replied to the points you made in your first lengthy critique of my essay on the death instinct. You have not replied to this. Are you satisfied with my interpretation of the Marcuse/Freud hypothesis?
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