May 2023 › Forums › General discussion › Conspiracy
- This topic has 31 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 3 months ago by Ozymandias.
May 8, 2020 at 11:05 pm #201626OzymandiasParticipant
Back to conspiracy territory I’m afraid folks. But this video is important I think. From Dr Judy Mikovits PhD.May 9, 2020 at 2:56 pm #201677Matthew CulbertKeymasterBijou DrainsParticipant(188.8.131.52)
These conspiracy theories, that a small group of people are secretly controlling the world and using its resources for their own benefit in an anti democratic and dictatorial manner, is a smokescreen for the fact that a small group of people (the capitalist class) are openly controlling the world and using its resources for their own benefit in an anti democratic and dictatorial manner.
And “conspiracy” is so much easier than thoughtful social analysis. Which is why, in 2020, there are countless more flat earthers than there are socialists.Bijou DrainsParticipant(184.108.40.206)
One of the arguments I use when I talk to conspirancy theorists, is how will the conspirators they think control the earth continue to conspire in a moneyless world of common ownership? How will they bribe, corrupt and punish?
If the illumanti or the deep state or whatever bogey man they make up does exist, then only Socialism can get rid of them.
Perhaps we should use that as a slogan at the next election “vote Socialist and get rid of the Lizard People”, just an idea 🙁Dave CheshamParticipant(220.127.116.11)
“And back to conspiracy debunking, Ozy, from just a few sources but there are multiple.”
Those who have access to Facebook will have seen that the Plandemic video, which several individuals had succumbed to, including, sadly, some Party members, has been well and truly debunked.
Forget that, Bijou.
Conspiracism is a cult. One cannot rationalise with the extremely irrational. I know firsthand.
The conspiracist will say s/he KNOWS. Their speech is repetition of the guru’s they follow. They are incapable of thought outside the confines of their ideology.
It’s the same as arguing with evangelicals. Conspiracists are evangelicals, even if Christless. Which is why evangelicals so easily embrace conspiracism.
Dave, isn’t that the Eric Dubay thing? He’s a flat earther.
IDEOLOGY VS. PHILOSOPHY
<p dir=”ltr”>One can be brainwashed by minority, alternative, media too.
Cults are minorities. Some are very small.
The difference between brainwashing and thought is the difference between ideology and philosophy.
The ideologist adopts instantly the entire credo of a group because of an emotional / romantic / image-based need, or a need to belong.
This is what the “phases” of adolescents are, seeking belonging, or seduced by imagery.
It is true that most, having passed through this stage, and being working-class (99% of the world’s population are working class), have little time on their hands for thought beyond that of working for their living and struggling to raise families etc. Life under capitalism means it is convenient to rely on mainstream media, and hence be patriotic and trusting of whichever nation-state apparatus governs them and the news it puts out.
Minorities, some small, some large, will seek belonging, still, in groups and cults which, demonstrating some “rebelliousness” or “difference” from “the herd” give them the sense of belonging through difference. Such are converts to religions, racist groups, anything that has a leader or pundit to follow, and by following, belong. For some, the more outrageous and the more reviled, the better.
All these are <i>ideology</i>.</p>
<p dir=”ltr”>Philosophy, however, is very different from ideology.
The philosopher does not accept the entirety of someone else’s thought, nor reject that entirety, on the basis of agreement or disagreement in one or two particulars. A philosopher does not require leaders to follow. S/he does not wish to lead. S/he is not interested in imagery. S/he doesn’t care about belonging to anything. S/he may be mistaken in things, but cannot be brainwashed. There is no danger for the philosopher in listening to or watching or reading <i>any</i> media or propaganda.
S/he is not susceptible to brainwashing, neither by the state nor by any cult, neither by the majority nor any minority.
The only way to damage the philosopher is to physically do so, by violence applied to the brain.
The philosopher <i>sifts</i> information in the light of views – philosophy – developed through the course of their lifetime. This is why philosophers usually disagree about most things. If s/he joins a group it is not to find belonging; it is not because of any need to be in a group. It is purely because of a shared interest.
The philosopher does not <i>abdicate</i> his/her thought in order to <i>be part of</i> a group or party.</p>
<b>Conspiracy theorist</b><i> </i>or<b> </b><b>conspiracist</b>, <i>n.</i>
A person lacking in personal reserves of wisdom and with no capacity for discernment or intellectual discipline, who rejects all received knowledge on the basis that everything is a conspiracy against him/her and others. Ironically, while claiming all received knowledge and book-learning to be a conspiracy, the conspiracist voraciously absorbs and believes, without any discernment, any and every outlandish and mystical charlatanry going – as long as it rejects received knowledge and wisdom. When challenged, the conspiracist will opt for nihilism – denying that any of us can ever know anything – whilst simultaneously, like the religious fundamentalist, claiming that s/he<i>does </i>know. The conspiracist is an absolutist. A genuine thinker, historian or scientist need have one fault, be wrong about one fact, or say one thing questionable, and the conspiracist will seize on it as “proof” we should reject the former’s entire corpus. Whilst proudly proclaiming his/her individuality and rejecting all received knowledge, the conspiracist is the most enthralled by the self-appointed gurus whose statements s/he repeats, and presents as personal conclusions. The digital phenomenon has been a godsend to the charlatans who sow conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and pseudohistory. The gullible these depend on are the conspiracy theoristsMay 9, 2020 at 6:32 pm #201689AnonymousInactive
“Dave, isn’t that the Eric Dubay thing? He’s a flat earther.”
On a par JO. But on this occasion it’s Judy Mikovits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_MikovitsMay 14, 2020 at 2:18 am #202238
Worth a read
The left can be drawn to conspiracy theories — but they often feed right-wing policies
“…Pouring our energy and anger into the wrong direction ultimately hurts us, not the elites that conspiracy theorists claim to target.”May 14, 2020 at 7:59 pm #202310AnonymousInactive
We are living in a world based on conspiracy theories, and many presidents are using them to promote their political campaignMay 22, 2020 at 11:53 pm #202777
Half of all Americans who name Fox News as their primary television news source and 44% of voters who cast ballots for Trump in 2016 “believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements.
A completely absurd conspiracy theory about Bill Gates is shockingly popular on the right wingMay 23, 2020 at 1:59 am #202778AnonymousInactive
They don’t need the chip, they already have it on their stupid brainsMay 27, 2020 at 10:08 am #203020AnonymousInactive
Nonetheless, some workers are opting to have chips implanted so their employers can track them, so they can open their cars, etc., without gadgets. Let’s hope this proves a minority, temporary, aberration. Some US states have banned this technology.June 22, 2020 at 12:03 am #204329
The so-called Soros conspiracy
Experts who study conspiracy theories say the new claims about Soros are a way to delegitimize the protests and the actual reasons behind them. Some see anti-Semitism, or a new spin on the age-old hoax that a shadowy cabal of rich men — whether it’s the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, Bill Gates or Soros — is manipulating world events.June 22, 2020 at 2:59 am #204344
Another useful article on the psychology of conspiracy
“The Age of Enlightenment introduced this mechanical view of all things being related to cause and effect, and this led to conspiracy theories,” Butter told DW about the modern incarnation of these plots. “It was assumed that there was a deliberate intention behind every action.”June 23, 2020 at 2:56 am #204407AnonymousInactive
There are so many conspiracy theories about Israel controlling the world and the USA, and the reality is that more than one-third of the population of Israel wanted to leave the country due to poverty, unemployment, criminality, racial discrimination and religious discrimination. Those conspiracy theories portrait Israel as a society where there is no class division and everybody is rich and powerful, and all the Jews reject the Palestinians and all are zionist. The ironic thing is that most of those false theories are being propagated by leftwingersJune 24, 2020 at 9:48 am #204489AnonymousInactive
“The Age of Enlightenment introduced this mechanical view of all things being related to cause and effect, and this led to conspiracy theories,” Butter told DW about the modern incarnation of these plots. “It was assumed that there was a deliberate intention behind every action.”
Whilst the early materialists saw cause and effect in mechanical terms, they are much more. The awareness that there is no effect without a cause and that effects become causes is not disproven by conspiracy theories. Most causes in human thought are no more intentional than are their effects. Most of the time cause and effect bypasses our consciousness. Only analysis of the processes bring them to our consciousness. Even intentional causes are also effects, moving our will one way or another.
Conspiracy theorists are simply wrong about causes. The fact of cause and effect as the way of the universe remains true. The thing is, by examination and analysis, to learn what is a true cause and what is a false.
Cause and effect, effect and cause, is the basis of the materialist conception of history. Historical materialism is about correctly identifying causes and effects.
Conspiracists are not correctly identifying them.June 24, 2020 at 10:11 am #204491AnonymousInactiveJune 24, 2020 at 4:21 pm #204511ALBKeymaster
Yes I too thought that that was an odd thing to say. Blaming conspiracy theories on the Age of Enlightenment and its mechanical view of all things doesn’t hold water.
The origin of the classic conspiracy theory that the world is controlled by a select group of humans who manipulated events was concocted by opponents of the Enlightenment to explain the overthrow in the French Revolution of the old order from which they had benefitted. It was no accident that the reactionary catholic defenders of the old order behind this theory saw this group as the Illuminati (a small and not very significant group of advanced thinkers that did exist for a while) as the word means the Enlightened in Latin. Far from them accepting a mechanical view of all things, they blamed this view for undermining the religious view that had justified the rule and privileges of the old landed ruling class, correctly in fact since it was part of the ideology of the rising bourgeoisie as in fact was the whole 18th century Enlightenment.June 24, 2020 at 4:58 pm #204512AnonymousInactive
Yes. The standard ingredients of conspiracism include plots by Freemasons and Jews. The Tsarist diaspora fuelled these obsessions that had been started earlier by French emigres. Most modern conspiracists stand by the ridiculous Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a favourite textbook of the Russian diaspora following 1917.
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