Charlie Hebdo Attacked in Paris
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I think it's all about diversion, diversion of issues and I would say that if this is the strategy of those in power then it is an effective scenario, successfull, the focus of the people have been diverted to the issue on terrorism and it seems the issue is really being drag down on the level of religion conflict, Islam vs. Christianity, instead of the class struggle Capitalist vs. Workers. sardaan Ordinarian
ALB wrote:Quote:You can see why some Algerians went to fight for the Iraqi resistance. And found a new cause…I'm afraid I can't. They can't use history as an excuse.
Well, actually than can, and do, use history as an excuse. And who can really blame them given the murderous activities of the West (and in particular, the U.S.) in the Middle East dating back at least 200 years?
gnome wrote:Well, actually than can, and do, use history as an excuse. And who can really blame them given the murderous activities of the West (and in particular, the U.S.) in the Middle East dating back at least 200 years?Indeed. They have been treated like vermin by the West and still are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWlrUcb8l4o
gnome wrote:And who can really blame them given the murderous activities of the West (and in particular, the U.S.) in the Middle East dating back at least 200 years?Socialists can. They should direct their anger at capitalism as a whole, not particular capitalist powers. As some have. Some are members of our party or of other groups that stand for socialism. They made the right analysis and the right choice. The Islamists made the wrong one.
I have just had a very ill tempered discussion with an old friend on facebook. She had posted the Fisk article, and I questioned its assumptions. Fisk as well as so many on the british left can not accept that the reason for Islamist attacks is Islamism. A political theory based upon the necessity of recreating a mythical idealised Ummah. They are determined to impose upon the actions of the Islamists their own interpretation, their own justifications, whether it be Israel/ Palestine, racism, the 'war on terror' or whatever. they thus deny the terrorist their own voice, in some ways as racist a response as that of the Front Nationale or the other bigots.my insistence that the blame for the attacks has to be found in the statements and acts of those who committed them, resulted in her declaring that I'd said all Muslims were responsible, and her husband joining the discussion, they were both Trotskyists in the swp back in the 90s, and I know had been organisers for Respect in South London.. As he vilified me for failing to agree with him, I was standing alongside le pen and worse than the edl apparently, he revealed that he'd converted to Islam over a decade ago.didnt Tariq ali write a book in the 90s about Trotskyists whose Lenin God had failed all joining the worlds religions instead?
Zizek makes some good points, but probably means he's a racist like mehttp://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/01/slavoj-i-ek-charlie-hebdo-massacre-are-worst-really-full-passionate-intensity
Darren redstar wrote:didnt Tariq ali write a book in the 90s about Trotskyists whose Lenin God had failed all joining the worlds religions instead?Yes, Redemption, a brilliant satire of Trotskyism in the style of Charlie Hebdo. Reviewed in the Socialist Standard here:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1990s/1991/no-1046-october-1991/collapse-trotsky%E2%80%99s-monumentA must-read for all socialists (and trotskyists).
Hamas condemns the terrorism actA statement in French said Hamas "condemns the attack against Charlie Hebdo magazine and insists on the fact that differences of opinion and thought cannot justify murder." Abbas and the PLO condemns thae terrorism actThe Palestine Liberation Organisation called for a public rally to be held in Ramallah on Sunday "in solidarity with France against terrorism."Syria condemns the terrorsim act (saying we told you so)“Syria has repeatedly warned of the dangers of supporting terrorism, especially that targeted Syria and the region"Tariq Ali on the terrorism act herehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/09/maximum-horror/
Quote:There are different versions of Islam (the occupation of Iraq was used deliberately to trigger the Sunni-Shia wars that helped give birth to the Islamic State); it is meaningless to claim to speak in the name of a ‘real’ Islam. The history of Islam from its very beginnings is replete with factional struggles. Fundamentalist currents within Islam as well as external invasions were responsible for wiping out many cultural and scientific advances in the late medieval period. Such differences continue to exist.In 1961 there was a massacre in Paris against the protestors who refused the French war in Algeria
Capitalism is world terrorist number one. It should be in our most wanted list
mcolome1 wrote:In 1961 there was a massacre in Paris against the protestors who refused the French war in AlgeriaYes, but the struggle for an independent Algerian state was led by the FLN which was not Islamist but nationalist and even claimed to be socialist. When it got independence in 1962 with Ben Bella as president it said it was building "socialism" and some trotskyists went there as advisers (Pablo, or Michael Raptis, for example). They were building state capitalism of course but not an Islamic state.I recall going to an Algerian cafe in Paris in the 1970s with a French comrade from the French West Indies and having a discussion there with some Algerians who knew their Marxism or at least their Leninism. They knew immediately what we meant when we described what we meant by socialism, saying "yes, that's communism, our eventual goal". So, these were people on the same sort of wavelength as us. Not Islamists. There were and probably still are Algerian political groups which described the Algeria of the time as state capitalist.In 1965 Ben Bella was overthrown in a military coup and the military remain the dominant force to this day. In 1991 the Islamists looked like winning the elections but the army stepped in to stop this and a brutal civil war resulted. This is why some Algerians support Islamism. Most, I suspect, support the military government which has had to make some concessions to the fact that most people there are of that religion.In other words, the history of French atrocities in Algeria cannot be used as a justification for Islamism. It could just as validly (or more logically) be used to justify a general "anti-imperialist" position, to establish a national state capitalism rather than an Islamic State. Fisk is wrong.
I believe that the veterans of the war for Algerian independence were the victims of the Charlie Hedbo massacre not the perpetrators
ALB wrote:mcolome1 wrote:In 1961 there was a massacre in Paris against the protestors who refused the French war in AlgeriaYes, but the struggle for an independent Algerian state was led by the FLN which was not Islamist but nationalist and even claimed to be socialist. When it got independence in 1962 with Ben Bella as president it said it was building "socialism" and some trotskyists went there as advisers (Pablo, or Michael Raptis, for example). They were building state capitalism of course but not an Islamic state.I recall going to an Algerian cafe in Paris in the 1970s with a French comrade from the French West Indies and having a discussion there with some Algerians who knew their Marxism or at least their Leninism. They knew immediately what we meant when we described what we meant by socialism, saying "yes, that's communism, our eventual goal". So, these were people on the same sort of wavelength as us. Not Islamists. There were and probably still are Algerian political groups which described the Algeria of the time as state capitalist.In 1965 Ben Bella was overthrown in a military coup and the military remain the dominant force to this day. In 1991 the Islamists looked like winning the elections but the army stepped in to stop this and a brutal civil war resulted. This is why some Algerians support Islamism. Most, I suspect, support the military government which has had to make some concessions to the fact that most people there are of that religion.In other words, the history of French atrocities in Algeria cannot be used as a justification for Islamism. It could just as validly (or more logically) be used to justify a general "anti-imperialist" position, to establish a national state capitalism rather than an Islamic State. Fisk is wrong.
Robert Fish has always defended all kind of bourgeois nationalism. Most of his articles are published by the ICH
Police Chief in charge of investigating Charlie Hebdo attack apparently commits suicide.http://yournewswire.com/police-chief-in-charge-of-paris-attacks-commits-suicide/
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