- This topic has 7 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Anonymous.
June 5, 2023 at 3:58 pm #243792DJPParticipant
Bit of a major blooper on the front page of this website today: “all workers are exploited in the sense that they are systemically underpaid for the work they do so that employers can make a profit”.
Is it worth having a discussion as to why this is not the socialist argument at all?June 5, 2023 at 7:19 pm #243796AnonymousInactive
That is a Leninist argumentation, the same old argument of Lenin that the low pay of the workers at the colonies paid for the high salary of the workers at the metropolis, which is an absurd argument due to the fact that the workers at the industrialized countries produced more surplus value. Lenin distorted Marx concept of economic exploitation which takes places at the point of production
PS We have three articles that debunk all those Leninist distortionsJune 5, 2023 at 9:27 pm #243800ste finchParticipant
You are right DJP – it’s been changed now to remove any possible ambiguityJune 5, 2023 at 10:49 pm #243801ALBKeymaster
So it now says(just looked it up, didn’t see the first version):
June 5, 2023
UK children’s charity Barnado’s says that a record number of children are in danger of online ‘exploitation’ as parents struggle with the cost of living and can’t afford summer break activities or holidays (Guardian).
By ‘exploitation’ they mean specifically criminal activity (drug dealing) or sexual abuse via online grooming. The treatment of children in capitalism is often appalling, especially when there’s money to be made out of them. But the term ‘exploitation’ should not be confined to cases of extreme abuse. In fact, all workers are exploited. Otherwise there can never be any profit for employers.Ever. Exploitation isn’t just a cruel and unusual feature of ‘bad’ capitalism, it’s built in.”
I suppose the objection to the original wording was that it was ambiguous as it could have been interpreted as saying that workers are exploited by not being paid the full value of what they are selling (their labour power, or capacity to work). Whereas in most cases they are but, despite this, they are still exploited as this is less than what they produce for their employer.June 6, 2023 at 12:14 am #243802AnonymousInactive
They are calling super exploitation the destruction of the forest by the lumber industry, but they do not mention the high rate of profits produced from the sweat of the workers
It would be different to say that children are being hired to cut sugar cane for the sugar industry, that is real exploitation, it is not mention, they only talk about prostitution and drug traffic, but in that industry they employ children to manufacture cocaineJune 6, 2023 at 8:47 am #243810ALBKeymaster
Yes, the word “exploitation” is used very loosely in Leftwing and reformist circles. Often “oppression” or “bad treatment” would be better. In an economic context they use it to describe lower than normal wages (as opposed to “fair” wages). Similarly, they are not opposed to profits, only to “profiteering” ie to higher than normal profits.
Basically, they see nothing wrong with the wages-profits system as long as wages are fair and profits are normal. They only criticise capitalism’s excesses not the system itself.June 6, 2023 at 11:52 am #243814DJPParticipant
Yes the new version is much better. Workers are exploited even if they receive the full value of their labour-power (which they usually do, and occasionally will receive more – due to the fluctuating prices of other commodities).June 6, 2023 at 1:34 pm #243817AnonymousInactive
Left wingers only advocate for taxation on the profits instead of the elimination of the profit system
Better wages instead of the elimination of the wage system, or wage slavery
They worship the state and its leaders instead of the elimination of both
To distribute poverty among the workers instead of a society of free access
Socialism/communism in the hands of left-wingers and Leninists has never advanced one day.
For them socialism is only state public education, state public transportation, medical service run by the state, and identity politic
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