Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic

April 2024 Forums General discussion Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic

Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 824 total)
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  • #159932
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Is Soros actually a practitioner of Judaism, the religion? If not, I think we should be careful about calling him “Jewish”, otherwise we would be going along with a definition of being Jewish whose implications we wouldn’t agree with. I would hate to be called a Christian just because that’s my family’s religious background.

    #159934
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    It’s complicated. Under UK law (and others) being Jewish is not only a religion but a race, too (as is Sikhism), another concept we would question. But the Nazis and anti-semites have never been bothered about who is technically a Jew. Nor the Israelis who adopted much of the Nuremburg laws on who can be defined as Jewish

    I also note this article about BDS

    “…..he Israeli government are investing $72m in persuading US, European and other western legislators, political parties and governments, in the hope of designating BDS – and any call for boycott – as an anti-Semitic one, punishable by law.

    A two-day conference in Brussels earlier this month, Israeli officials and their European supporters unleashed their broader European anti-BDS campaign. Organised by traditional Zionist institutions, such as the European Jewish Association (EJA) and the Europe Israel Public Affairs (EIPA) group, the November 6-7 conference was fully supported by the Israeli government, featuring right-wing Israeli Minister of Jerusalem Affairs, Ze’ev Elkin.  Under the usual pretext of addressing the danger of anti-Semitism in Europe, attendees deliberately conflated racism and any criticism of Israel, of its military occupation and colonisation of Palestinian land. Equating the condemnation of Israel’s unlawful practices with racism against all Jews is at the heart of .

    The EJA Annual Conference” has raised Israel’s manipulation of the term “anti-Semitism” to a whole new level, as it drafted a text that will purportedly be presented to prospective members of the European Parliament (MEPs), demanding their signature before running in next May’s elections. Those who decline to sign – or worse, repudiate the Israeli initiative – are likely to find themselves fending off accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Defining the boycott of Israel – thus any support of the BDS movement – as equivalent to anti-Semitism, the Israeli text is likely to serve as a step towards the criminalisation of any criticism of the Israeli government.

    “All political parties pledge to exclude from government parties or politicians that espouse anti-Semitism as defined by the IHRA definition. All political parties to pass, in accordance with their respective rules of procedure, binding resolutions that reject BDS activities as fundamentally anti-Semitic.”

    [We will surely expect Corbyn to be accused in due course.]

    In December 2016, Germany’s Christian Democratic Union Party adopted a resolution equating boycotting Israel and anti-Semitic views and practices. In Italy there is a draft law which describes boycotting Israel as “masked anti-Semitism”. If approved, the legislation will provide legal justification for indicting and punishing BDS activists. 

    In the United States, 25 states have already passed anti-BDS legislation, or issued executive orders targeting BDS support networks, while other states are in the process of following suit. At a federal government level, the CongressionalIsrael Anti-boycott Act, which is being received with much enthusiasm among US legislators, vows to fine and imprison those who boycott Israel. Sheldon Adelson, quickly moved into action, establishing the “Maccabee Task Force”, which raised millions of dollars to fight against what Israeli officials define as an existential threat to Israel and the delegitimisation of the country as a “Jewish state.”

    In March 2017, Israeli passed the Anti-BDS Travel Ban, which requires the Interior Minister to deny entry to the country to any foreign national who “knowingly issued a public call to boycott the state of Israel.”  Since the ban went into effect, many BDS supporters have been detained, deported and barred from entering the country.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/israel-72m-war-chest-fight-bds-arrives-europe-181113115929627.html

    #160457
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    The Times of Israel: How many of the 257 Labour MPs are in the Labour Friends of Israel?

    Joan Ryan: We have about 100 who are identifiable LFI supporters.

    “…anti-Zionism is today’s anti-Semitism. It’s anti-Zionist, anti-Israel, anti-Semitism….Israel is in the hearts of the Jewish community. Ultimately it’s a safe haven. [Corbyn] needs to understand why Israel matters to the Jewish community. …[Livingstone] is a disgrace, an anti-Semite. I hope he will never be allowed back into our party. He has Tourette’s. He cannot get through an interview without mentioning Hitler. It’s like something off Fawlty Towers…”

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/mp-who-heads-labour-friends-of-israel-is-concerned-corbyn-might-become-pm/

    #188596
    ZJW
    Participant
    I would like to point out something supplemental to my post #132559 regarding cultural zionists or ‘semi-zionists’ (?) that while supporting Jewish immigration to Mandate Palestine, opposed partition (ie two states) but rather were in favor of a single bi-ethnic state:

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/bi-nationalism

           
    From a recent reading  (Zachary Lockman: Comrades and Enemies – Arab and Jewish Workers in Palestine, 1906–1948, which is online on libcom), I see that at least some of these groups supported a system of political parity, such that it would not matter whether the Jewish or non-Jewish population was in the majority.
           
    A very good book by the way, or especially the earlier parts of it.
                   
    (I put a question mark after ‘semi-zionist’ because to my mind, zionism means a *Jewish* state.)
    #188603
    ALB
    Keymaster

    It seems that the Old Testament has been guilty of anti-philistinism.

    #188604
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The Old Testament qualifies for a Nuremberg Trial, and it can be used as a Handbook for tortures

    #188627
    Dave B
    Participant

    I think this anti-semitism thing is of itself; is beneath contempt as a deliberate ploy by the deep state actors to discredit the left.

     

    Irrespective of our opinions of the Corbynista’s.

     

    There was yet another article on it by Jonathan cook recently.

     

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51867.htm

     

    Norman Finkelstein did something recently on the same thing on Rt News ‘renegade inc’ episode.

     

    Both his parents where caught up in the holocaust his father being part of the Warsaw uprising and a survivor of Auschwitz.

     

    “….Norman’s father, Zacharias Finkelstein, active in Hashomer Hatzair, was a survivor of both the Warsaw Ghetto and the Auschwitz concentration camp…<sup>.”</sup>

    <sup> </sup>

    He has no extended family from either of his parents; as none survived.

     

    The interest in the subject is sort of more secondary nature as a significant or critical mass of the UK population realise that is a WMD type hoax and the media including the BBC and the Guardian are discrediting and exposing themselves as lying lackeys of the ruling class.

     

    I suppose we can welcome that.

     

    The potential dark side of it, as Finkelstein said on RT, is the majority of the ‘Jewish’ community appear to be supporting this project.

     

    And that it may come to pass that people will say the ‘Jew’s’ in support of and conspiring with the capitalist class attempted to discredit the working class left.

     

    And as the outraged Norman Finkelstein said;

     

    not me,

     

    “they will be right”

    #188628
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    #188678
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Jonathan Cook’s latest article

    “…There is a plot against Corbyn to stop him getting anywhere near power. It is a very obvious one…”

    Guilt of Anti-semitism Now Needs No Evidence

    “…But even if all that is true, polls suggest a significant number of ordinary Jews think there is a problem with anti-semitism in Labour. How can we dismiss or denigrate their views? Well, if only one view of Labour and anti-semitism is being aired in the media, it is almost certain that a majority of Jews will end up believing the truth of a supposed “Corbyn threat”. Jews are no different from the rest of us. No smoke without fire, they’ll say…”

    #188696
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    “Apartheid Israel perpetuates statutory discrimination through the very definition by the law as a Jewish state; by doing so it renders non-Jews as second-class citizens, alternately as foreigners in the land of their birth…as long as Israel and Israelis are not punished and don’t pay for the occupation, for the crimes, don’t expect any change. It will not come from within Israel…” – Zwelivelile Mandela, an MP of the ruling African National Congress, Nelson Mandela’s grandson.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/nelson-mandela-grandson-slams-israeli-apartheid-190707053146087.html

    Human rights activist Issa Amro, who is based in Hebron, said “Don’t be afraid of ‘anti-Semitism’ because the message of this conference should be that criticising Israeli human rights violations is not anti-Semitism,”

     

    #188701
    ALB
    Keymaster

    as long as Israel and Israelis are not punished and don’t pay for the occupation, for the crimes,” There is something incoherent, and rather disturbing, about this statement by that South African MP.  Since 20% of so of “Israelis” are not classified by the state there as “Jews”, he is either saying that they too should be punished or (more likely) that only those Israelis classified as Jews should be. I think that might qualify as being anti-Semitic.

    #188702
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    In Israel they specifically apply the description Israeli-Arab to differentiate from the “proper” Israelis i.e. the Jewish section.

    Israeli-Arab is a term chosen purposefully to avoid describing them as Palestinian Israelis (albeit there are a small number of non-Palestinians such as Bedouin and Druze)

    I have always tried to say Israeli government on the blog but occasionally saying Israel and its adjective Israeli does slip through as it relates to the political state. But i’ll try to be more precise in future

    As South African, however he should be more circumspect in his language. During apartheid we can say South Africa and it is recognized as meaning the white supremist government, however when we said South Africans is meant all the people.

    I’m not at all sure that he is being anti-Semitic, just careless, maybe

    #188777
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    “Antisemitism is a poison, it is vile, it is wrong,” he said. “It is a poison in our society and any other society … It is not acceptable in any form. Corbyn noted that anyone in the party who commits any act of antisemitism faces withdrawal of membership or expulsion, and “that we have done”. He said: “We investigate every case that comes up … It’s less than 0.1% of our membership that have ever been involved in any accusation, never mind any resolution of the issue.”

    A BBC statement on Saturday said: “The BBC stands by its journalism and we completely reject any accusations of bias or dishonesty. The investigation was not pre-determined, it was driven by the evidence. The outcome shows the serious questions facing the Labour party and its leadership on this issue. The programme adhered to the BBC’s editorial guidelines, including contacting the Labour party in advance of the broadcast for a full right of reply.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/13/corbyn-decries-bbcs-inaccuracies-over-labour-antisemitism

    Well, if anybody who has been on this forum for any length of time will know, I particularly detest the hypocrisy and cant of the BBC, and its constant refrain of balance…

    If the SPGB  ever gains a foothold in the political arena, we too should fully expect a campaign of disinformation and misinformation aimed at us from the BBC.

    #188781
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Jonathan Cook once again has written about the smear campaign against Corbyn and the BBC’s complicity.

    With Panorama’s Hatchet Job on Labour Antisemitism, BBC Has Become the Tory’s Attack Dog

    “…The question is why did the BBC’s flagship political investigations show decide that the marginal problem of racism in Labour was a much more urgent matter than the provable and significant racism in the Conservative Party? Unlike Labour, the Conservatives are actually in power and, through policy-making, are in a position to improve or damage the fabric of life for minority communities in Britain. This isn’t about protecting Corbyn. It is an expectation that the BBC sticks by its commitment to assess dispassionately British political life rather than interfere, as it did with the Panorama special, in an overt, partisan manner.”

    A forlorn hope by Cook, i’m afraid. The BBC won’t change

     

    #188782
    ZJW
    Participant
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