American election

January 2021

Forums General discussion American election

Viewing 15 posts - 556 through 570 (of 591 total)
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  • #212459
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    If it had been BLM or Antifa rioting, the blame would be on George Soros financing it. But i need much more convincing of any conspiracy. There was much more chaos than coordinated action from i read of the event. I’m very sceptical that it was a coup or an insurrection. A mindless mob swayed by the demagogue…yes, and when they were met with unexpected little resistance on their rampage, at a complete loss to what to do next. The main risk now is the excuse for the suppression of social media freedom, the introduction of new draconian laws on assembly and marches. The opponents of defund the police will be calling for law and order coffers to be filled to the brim.

    This article makes a reasonable read even if calling for second coming of FDR is very silly.

    Trump Impeached Amid Efforts to Silence Him

    #212460
    Matthew Culbert
    Keymaster

    Web note:

    Some of the latest replies on this thread, have been appearing either out of synch, or missing.

    (Nothing to do with interference by us and a mere CMS software hiccup.) M.C.

    #212464
    Zusammenhang
    Participant

    Fears emerge about law enforcement complicity and securing Biden’s inauguration.

    Fight Trump Like He’s a Terrorist Leader, National Security Experts Say

    #212465
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    I find 2nd impeachment more a case of political theatre by the Democrats.

    It is a diversion.

    I’m more interested in Biden’s immediate agenda when he takes over and what becomes of his pledges and promises.

    I would also be more impressed by the sincerity of the Democratic Party if they had impeached George Bush for an illegal war. Or for that matter, Trump for pardoning war criminals.

    Plague on both their houses (in a house divided according to Lincoln)

    It seems there is more time for this impeachment than force the vote on M4A.

    #212466
    Matthew Culbert
    Keymaster

    “I know the SPGB does not approve the concept of Lumpen, but I think that is what they are”,

    I don’t accept that it is appropriate nowadays, if it ever was really so.

    “those dregs of society which Marx called very descriptively the “Lumpenproletariat.” It was this body that carried the terror against the Jews and other opponents of the Nazis.” From here >

    We do not need to speak to the closed minds, of those contemptious prior to investigation’, but the counter narratives from many who consider themselves on leftist and liberal spectrums are deeply flawed as well and those often perpetuate, speak to, and reconfirm, the prejudices and ideological understandings, arising from their actual social circumstances of those labelled’lumpen’.

    #212473

    Marx called lumpen proletariats to those workers who opposed the development of capitalism, The left applies the term to the workers who are anti-communists and supporters of capitalists and are ideological reactionaries. Originally the term Populists and Populism came from Russia and it was a movement that said that the peasants were the leaders of the working-class movement in Russia, and now the term has a different meaning which is related to a different type of movement. The term lumpen is widely used in Latin America and it is applicable to a different type of peoples and different type of situation including rich peoples, sometimes we hear the expression: Son un monton de lumpenes, which means they are a bunch of lumpen, it is applicable to thieves, criminals, drunks, vagabonds, pimps, and sometimes it is used in a sarcastic way, etc., etc. As I said the SPGB does not approve the terminology, but I used it in a sarcastic way similar to the photo published by Adam. There is also a new term known as Lumpen bourgeoise

    #212475

    This article makes a reasonable read even if calling for second coming of FDR is very silly.

    I don’t think so, even more, most of the reforms made by FDR were pushed by a coalition of leftists including Anarchists and workers unions leaders. Richard Wolff also recorded a talk about those reforms made by FDR

    #212486

    They should have impeached all the senators and house representatives who were part of the plot. They were accomplices to the death of five peoples, and when a black representative said that it was a white supremacists plot everybody at the congress boo her. Black peoples have always been treated differently and they are the first ones to be taken to jail and the first ones to be killed by the police forces, the USA justice system has two sets of rules, one for the white peoples and another one for the black peoples and the Latinos.

    Many of these senators and house representatives do not remember or do not know that the Chilean Capitol was stormed by military forces instigated by the CIA, the USA government, and Henry Kissinger to overthrow the government of Salvador Allende and the president was killed and thousands of Chileans were killed, the same situation took place in Honduras when president Zelaya was removed from office, and he was sleeping when they stormed his residence, and they took him out wearing pajamas.

    Most peoples who participated in that riot they do not know one atom about the real history of the USA, and what the USA have done to other countries and the millions of peoples who have been killed by the US leaders, how many governments have been overthrown, everything has been written by historians, that is the reason why Trump wanted to eliminate from the education system the books of Howard Zinn, they do not want workers to know the real history

    #212492

    https://mediaburn.org/video/howard-zinn-raw-58/

    The historian Howard Zinn answers questions to Harvard students. It shows how the minds of many young peoples from the USA have been distorted or how the educational system is used to control the minds of human beings, how standardized tests are used to stop students from becoming independent thinkers and to question what they are learning. Eugenio Maria de Hostos was one of the best pedagogies who created a system to motivate students to think as independent beings, but that system will never be used in the USA because it is too dangerous for the rulers, learning was not based on testing, it was based on verbal or oral participation and communication

    #212497
    Ozymandias
    Participant

    “I know the SPGB does not approve the concept of Lumpen, but I think that is what they are”

    I agree with Movimiento. If the Party doesn’t approve it’s news to me. My old man (like most other members of his generation) despised the working class. Has there been a sea change? Donnelly often said that some crazed faction of workers could sabotage revolution in the end. Thus making safe passage to the next society dangerous.
    Growing up I heard members call workers “slavish bastards” “fuckin proles” “bigots” “stupid cunts”. You name it. In fact I would say the term “Lumpen” is quite an elevated epithet.

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 20 hours ago by Ozymandias.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 20 hours ago by Ozymandias.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 19 hours ago by Ozymandias.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 19 hours ago by Ozymandias.
    #212503

    At present the term lumpen has different meanings, the original term has gone thru a process of metamorphosis like the term Populism, and Utopia in Colombia, the paramilitary who works for the Colombian state is called lumpen, and in Mexico, the members of the army who work for the drug cartels are called lumpen, the paid peoples who killed many members of the left and denounced them for a few dollars are called lumpen,( I have in my memory many of them )

    The term means peoples without class consciousness who will do anything to defend and protect the capitalist class, they are called declass, and are opposed to the working-class movement and collaborate with the class enemy of the workers, and poor workers who are against others poor workers, in Argentina and Chile they are called Facho Pobre (or poor fascists )

    In Puerto Rico it means poor peoples or peoples from the poor neighborhood, and there are business and radio who call themselves as lumpen or dedicated to poor peoples, in the Caribbean the political parties of the ruling elite are called lumpencracy, and the term is also related to political corruption, and sometimes is used to joke around with friends, like, hey lumpen how are you ? and peoples who know the term they do not get offended, although many expressions used by them had a different meaning in their time including the word dictatorship

    We must talk to the peoples and see the changing reality of this world, we can not stick ourselves to a book definition, or an XVIII century term. Personally, I think Marx should not have used the term, and Engels should not have used the word doctrine in regards to communism, because communism is not a doctrine. I do not know if it was a wrong translation from the German

    #212509
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Ozy, can you assure me that members of the party never ever used similar against fellow members? 😛

    #212512
    L.B. Neill
    Participant

    “Growing up I heard members call workers “slavish bastards” “fuckin proles” “bigots” “stupid cunts”. You name it. In fact I would say the term “Lumpen” is quite an elevated epithet.”

    Really! I am offended… I am glad to call myself a peasant, potato eating academic from the wilds of the back of beyond!
    What they displace in name calling: is what they actually are. That is the ruling elite fling the their identity conclusions upon their controlled ‘inferiors’ so they do not have to self evaluate these traits within their practices.

    I am member-less and adrift- but this is the first time I heard the term, Lumpen- sounds like a visit to the doctor! :_

    Edit: I just got it! Thanks MS.
    From LB, the peasant who is not a Lumpen. 🙂

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 17 hours ago by L.B. Neill.
    #212517

    I am member-less and adrift- but this is the first time I heard the term, Lumpen- sounds like a visit to the doctor! :_

    Edit: I just got it! Thanks MS.
    From LB, the peasant who is not a Lumpen. 🙂

    The term Lumpenproletariat was used by Marx on the Communist Manifesto and the 18th Brumaire of Lois Bonaparte, and as I have said he shouldn’t have used that term in regard to some sectors of the working class, and the term was picked up by the left and it was applied to all workers who did not support the left, or soviet state capitalism, and then the term went thru different interpretations until our days that It can be applied to different situations including to good situations instead of negative situations. I also think that Marx should not have used the term dictatorship of the proletariat either because it had created too many confusions and too many interpretations and it was not applicable in his time and it is not applicable in our time.

    #212519

    This is a good talk given by Richard Wolff in regard to the US election, and the event of January 6, 2021, the conclusion as always he tried to indicate that workers can reform capitalism

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