robbo203
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“Self determination” – the mantra they apply to states, but never to individuals.
Good Point AC. In the end, the position advocated in the article is a nationalist one and therefore, ipso facto, a capitalist one. The author might just as well side with NATO which he condemns other leftists for doing because realistically where else are you getting to get your weapons from to fight your war of “national self-determination”?
This is quite a useful sketch of the different conflicting perspectives on the Left on Ukraine and the “traps” that they entail. Yet disappointingly the writer falls into his own trap by way of a summary:
“We should support the Ukrainian right of self-determination and its struggle for national liberation from Russian occupation. We must advocate the right of Ukranians to secure arms from wherever they can to defend themselves—even as we must point out to Ukrainians the strings that will come attached to any weapons and support they seek from the United States and other imperial powers.”
AC but what if Ukraine ratified an agreement that Crimea was Russian perhaps with co-signatories in the shape of the western powers. A peaceful settlement would be in their interests anyway as well as Russia’s. I don’t think the fact that NATO could strike Moscow in two minutes as opposed to five if Ukraine was not in NATO would make much material difference
A thought occurred to me. If Ukraine formally recognised Donbas and Crimea as separate entities no longer part of Ukraine this would effectively remove the obstacle in the way of Ukraine joining NATO would it not? NATO’s own rules on membership don’t currently allow Ukraine to join precisely for this reason – that part of its territory is contested. Maybe Ukraine might decide to cut their losses and cut Donbas and Crimea adrift in return for which they would then be able to join NATO and presumably secure their future against any future invasion. Russia won’t like the idea of Ukraine joining NATO but the pros might outweigh the cons in this case
“Another call for the workers to kill themselves defending their own ruling class in a so-called patriotic war.”
Yes, MovimientoSocialista
It’s one thing to say you are opposed to Russian Imperialism, it’s quite another to actively align yourself with and support the other side – that is to say, another capitalist state as the people you mention do. Hence, their statement:
“We are in favour of the delivery of defensive weapons to the victims of aggression with no strings attached – in this case to the Ukrainian state fighting the Russian invasion of its territory”
It is interesting that the Left seems to split on this whole issue. Some support Russian imperialism on the pretext of “fighting fascism” (notwithstanding the quasi-fascist nature of the Putin regime), others support the authoritarian Ukrainian state. Very few seem to be saying a “plague on both their houses”
The WSM may not be unique in adopting this last position but I think it is the most consistent and principled organisation in its opposition to every capitalist war going right back to World War one
Another example of Leftists choosing sides in a capitalist war – this time in support of Russian capitalist imperialism. Why can’t these people, along with those like the ridiculous “Workers Liberty” party that seemingly align themselves with NATO instead, see that the only sensible and principled approach is simply to REFUSE to be drawn into supporting either side.
https://www.struggle-la-lucha.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/04SLL28Feb2022.pdf
Anyone who supports one or other side in this capitalist war automatically forfeits the right to be considered a socialist organisation for this reason alone (let alone the many other reasons one can adduce)
Adam and all
You referred earlier to a circular email you received from the following individual condemning our anti-nationalist approach to the Ukraine war
“Boris Ikhlov, secretary of executive committee of Russia’ Marxist political union “Worker”, 5.3.2022″
Well, purely by accident I came across a very old email dated July 2014 when I was looking for something totally different in my email filing system. Lo and behold in this email the name Boris Ikhlov cropped up.
I copy and paste the main contents as follows:“The informer Boris Ikhlov at work
http://eretik-samizdat.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-informer-boris-ikhlov-at-work.htmlAndrey Karaulov, reclamed by Ikhlov (see below), also was KGB informer: he betrayed Boris Kagarlitsky – B. K. had come to jail because of Karaulov. About that see here (in Russian):
From the samizdat blog, it appears that Ikhlov is associated with the fascist National Bolshevik party in Russia!
Leftist supporters of Ukrainian nationalism and self-determination in the shape of the “Workers’ Liberty” group
QUOTE:
“And who do British leftists, who refuse to back Ukraine, think they are to demand the Ukrainians negotiate with Putin? and even negotiate on the basis of Minsk 2? The Ukrainian government wants to negotiate, and that is its right. Our job is to rally working-class support to help Ukraine fight to defend itself. That is the division now on the UK left.”
I appreciate what you are saying, Drive, but still if you manage to grit your teeth and listen, the guy does make some interesting points such as the one I referred to…
What BTW is the background to all this business about a number of American-funded Biolabs being found in the Ukraine that Galloway refers to? Anyone got more information about this or is Galloway just exaggerating?
Talking of George Galloway, here’s an interesting video of his although, as to be expected, he does not make much in the way of the criticism of the obnoxious Putin regime. He is an effective speaker and it’s a pity his talent is seemingly being used to apologize for that regime.
There is some startling information he presents such as the extent of Zelensky’s personal wealth on coming to power – an indication of the endemic corruption that plagues that country (and Russia too)
Putin’s inner circle
