JordanB
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So are you more of a Trotskyist communist rather than a Leninist ? To pull off global revolution with the lines that divide humanity this would take decades, maybe even centuries. I'm all for it but I just don't think it will happen this way, it seems to swift & prone to failure.
Exactly Alan ! This is the whole third worldist persprective. Resistance in the first world, revolution in the third world. Resistance in the fist meaning for us to protest the wars & create an awarness about how our tax paid money is going towards propping up dicatatorships & oppresive regiems in the third world, via: social media, organizing, canvassing & good old fashion banter. This would all help contribute towards pulling the troops out of the third world & might help cut funding of these oppresive regiems. We could vote for UKIP too if we really wanted to help create the conditions that would be perfect for the mobilization of the masses, to cause revolution because UKIP would most certainly mess up the economy if they got in & this would create choas & order would emerge out of that power vaccum but the masses would need to be organized before hand. The thing is though it's very unlikely to happen because if we're to be honest most people in the first world are priviledged & don't want to give up their standard of living/consumer toys, our culture is narcissistic & very apathetic. We talk about the noble principles of socialism while sipping on tea that was manufactured from the exploits of the third world & at the same time typing away on our computers that are manufactured by slaves more or less in China. So far from revolutionary potential aren't we !?
Please do elaborate. I'm still waiting for a response to my question concerning activism & organizing too.
No that's not the case ! I'm not making an arguement for apathy here, I'm being honest. Che never took that attitude did he ? I think the key here is to try & inform people in colleges, online, in our communities etc. Honestly though, how many of you on this forum actually canvas, attend anti war protests & organize ? I mean no disrespect in asking this, I'm just curious. Oh & capitalist materialism is narcissistic & is made on the exploits of the workers of the third world in sweat shops, thats what I find wrong with it. You should look into Bill Ayers philosophy on revolution & socialism, in some ways his point of view is a lot like the SPGB he's rather interesting & not stagnating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NcyBPvLoHYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHN7qcwGDBI
As you, I do not have the answers to everything I am forever learning & not above criticism & mistakes. From observing society in general from across Britain & the western world in general. I see on average, an apathetic population of people who are not concerned with Socialism. Eastenders & Big Brother seems more pleasing to the masses at the time being. This is my honest observation. Did you pay close attention to the last general election ? Apathy galore ! Chavez was no saint that's for sure but there were & still are positive socialist reforms he made in the form of education & cooperatives etc. I whole heartedly agree with that quote from Eugene V. Debs, revolution does have to start in the nation state though & have a domino effect.
Actually there are many rebellions & revolutions around the world taking place every year. Workers in countries such as India are always organizing strikes & trying to build revolution. There are many factors in why they've not yet successfully created revolution. The main reason being because of the lack of organization within the leadership of their own groups, not to mention infiltration by their own government agencies to quell dissent. Than you have the cast system itself, which basically indoctrinates Hindu's to not rebel against authority because it's bad Kharma & will effect you in your next incarnation. There are many facets to this situation. First worlders rarley understand what these conditions are like & they don't usually take the time to research how the people in the third world are organizing. It's a struggle, struggles take time. Then there's countries like The Republic of Conga & numerous other countries in Africa at one point successfully staged revolutions but were constantly under attack by the opposistion groups, that are basically C.I.A proxy groups. When The Soviet Union fell, the financial aid that helped these groups ended & they could no longer fend off the opposition & were eventually overwhelmed by the western backed forces. Corruption within their own ranks also played a role in the disintergration of these socialist republics. Groups like FARC in Colombia would have probably established a socialist republic years ago if it wasn't for the U.S intervention, via the C.I.A, funding the opposition against them with advanced weaponry & millions upon millions of dollars in military aid.
Judging from my personal experience with human beings & a just a breif cursory look at history, I can tell that within near enough any large enough group, there'll always be individuals who can be bought. "If" the majority supported socialism and key fugures with the movement were assassinated it might end up strengthening the cause, yes ! That's just the thing though isn't it, the majority don't support it, they support this materialistic capitalist culture & don't want to change it….because….They're not desperate for change & socialism. The majority dream of past glory years, of British Imperialism, if you have your finger on the pulse of society you would realize this.
That's true but I think it's only fair to take into context the time & place Allende was living in. He had the Chilean colonial land owners, capitalists & the military to deal with. I think he was probably a socialist at heart but realized his ability was restricted unless he had the support of the majority of the masses & the military behind him to establish state capitalism & maybe even socialism.
The average "wage & salary working class" in tthe first world are often too caught up in the cycle of work (usually overtime & weekends too) & tending to their family life while being distracted by: materialism, the media circus & escapism (alcohol) in their free time. If they were hungry & impoverished they would be more motivated to understand why socialism is essential. I think it's critical to take into context the character of first world people when applying Marxist theory in the modern first world.
Why do you think it is that these vanguard parties go on to establish state capitalism rather than socialism ?
I disagree. We in the western world are too fat & happy to revolt at this moment in time, even our poorest are nothing like the poorest in the third world. For the right social conditions to occur for revolution to become a possibility we would need to be desperate for change. Hungry stomachs are the backbone of every proletariat uprising & revolution, not bloated stomachs. I mean we can hardly be compared to the Russian peasantry back in 1917 or the Vitnamese peasantry etc. In saying this I'm not making an arguement for apathy, I'm making an honest observation. I really don't see any way of changing the system "democratically" through the ballot box. Even if this was a possibility the capitalist class would have that candidate assassinated in a heartbeat or bribe them etc. Whether we look at: Cuba, Russia, Vietnam, China, Venezuela or any other socialist country across the world, they had to fight for socialism physically, the capitalists or imperial colonialists never give up power through the ballot box. Salvador Allende was a perfect example of this.
