jondwhite
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twc wrote:jondwhite wrote:World Socialist Party of the United StatesThe Socialist Party of CanadaWorld Socialist Party of IndiaWorld Socialist Party of New ZealandSocialist Studies (1991 to present)Socialist League (UK, 1885 until 1888)Proletarian Party?There's seven.
Amended your list to eightWorld Socialist Party of the United StatesThe Socialist Party of CanadaWorld Socialist Party of IndiaWorld Socialist Party of New ZealandSocialist Studies (1991 to present)Socialist League (UK, 1885 until 1888)Proletarian Party?[World] Socialist Party of Australia (1924 to 1990s)
Disproving your point?
twc wrote:Our Object and our Declaration of Principles remain to this day, after a century, the only practical scientific way of achieving just that. The rest is anti-scientific day dreaming, i.e. utopian!twc wrote:ajj wrote:I provided one individual and one political organisation which met your request. The means to achieve that solution may not be the SPGB's but they seek the same society as we do as a solution to all the social ills.Before you get carried away, you might reread my challenge to provide an instance of someone or some organisation outside the party that actually advocates the same practical solution as we do. I worded the challenge carefully.
World Socialist Party of the United StatesThe Socialist Party of CanadaWorld Socialist Party of IndiaWorld Socialist Party of New ZealandSocialist Studies (1991 to present)Socialist League (UK, 1885 until 1888)Proletarian Party?There's seven.
Vin wrote:Walford thought that less people would understand his "systematic ideology" than would understand our case for socialism. He was full of contradictions. He argued that the workers would never understand socialism but also believed that workers had rejected socialism.Did he say workers would never understand socialism? I thought it was just workers will be disinclined towards socialism.
The slightly facetious answer is those parties sharing the object of the SPGB are as follows;World Socialist Party of the United StatesSocialist Party of CanadaWorld Socialist Party of indiaWorld Socialist Party of New ZealandBut a better response might be something I have mentioned here before, a quote from George Walford's 1980 pamphlet on Socialism
Quote:Nearly everybody who hears or reads the party case refuses to accept it, and the party believes that if people do not accept the case that shows they have not understood it. I have had members tell me this directly. They have said, almost in these words: ‘We know these people have not understood the case because if they had understood it they would have accepted it.’As you can imagine, it takes a good deal to leave me speechless. But that did, the first time I heard it. The blind, unthinking conceit of that answer! If you disagree with the Socialist Party that shows you don’t understand them. They have nothing to learn from anybody. There is no possibility of anybody knowing more than they do and no possibility of them being wrong. They hold the Truth, the whole Truth and the perfect Truth. The only thing the rest of us can do is sit at their holy feet and hope some of their pearls of wisdom will drop into our hungry little mouths.George Walford: A Challenge to the Socialist Party of Great Britain
The Tory attack ad herehttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/14/conservtives-corbyn-attack-video-demon-eyes-smear-with-legs
Jeremy Corbyn blog entryhttp://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/we-are-all-leaders
Quote:We are all leaders, each and every one of us in the Labour Party and in the labour movement. Every time we convince someone to vote Labour, every time we challenge prejudice, every mind we change through well-reasoned argument, every injustice we stand up to, that is leadership. It changes the world.Being Labour Party leader gives whoever is elected a greater platform and with greater responsibility to influence that change. I didn’t enter this race with any personal ambition, and I don’t have any now. What I do have is a deep passion and ambition that together we will change our party, the way we do politics, and change our country.Quote:During this campaign, I have refused to either engage in, or respond to, any personal attacks. Political disagreements should be had politely and respectfully. No one has ever been inspired by the yah-boo politics of name-calling and abuse. It trivialises politics and demeans those politicians who engage in it.So let us stick to the issues, and there is none more important than the humanitarian crisis of the unprecedented number of refugees across the world. This isn’t a migrant crisis, it is a human crisis which must not become a crisis of our humanity.Jeremy Corbyn blog entryhttp://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/we-are-all-leaders
Quote:We are all leaders, each and every one of us in the Labour Party and in the labour movement. Every time we convince someone to vote Labour, every time we challenge prejudice, every mind we change through well-reasoned argument, every injustice we stand up to, that is leadership. It changes the world.Being Labour Party leader gives whoever is elected a greater platform and with greater responsibility to influence that change. I didn’t enter this race with any personal ambition, and I don’t have any now. What I do have is a deep passion and ambition that together we will change our party, the way we do politics, and change our country.[/QUOTEQuote:]During this campaign, I have refused to either engage in, or respond to, any personal attacks. Political disagreements should be had politely and respectfully. No one has ever been inspired by the yah-boo politics of name-calling and abuse. It trivialises politics and demeans those politicians who engage in it.So let us stick to the issues, and there is none more important than the humanitarian crisis of the unprecedented number of refugees across the world. This isn’t a migrant crisis, it is a human crisis which must not become a crisis of our humanity.Last one I leafleted was a few years ago and there seemed to be more flunkies and sharply dressed careerist spads than what you might expect of Labour members. I get the impression it is not a very democratic affair.
Here's what committed Grantite entryists Socialist Appeal sayhttp://www.socialist.net/political-earthquake-shakes-establishment-as-corbyn-wins-landslide-leadership-victory.htm
Quote:We wholeheartedly support the genuine reforms promised by Jeremy. … We must also learn the lessons of past Labour governments. Every attempt to make capitalism work has ended in disaster and the return of the Tories. … You cannot plan what you don’t control and you don’t control what you don’t own. Every attempt to control the economy has failed.No-one has really addressed the poll showing voters in favour of socialismhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/most-voters-would-welcome-a-more-radical-socialist-labour-party-new-poll-finds-10494366.htmlFor me it shows that yes we apply the hostility clause including to Labour, but in a serious way that does not alienate or mock potential readers or supporters.
Vin wrote:So a large section of the SPGB believes the whole world – save us few members – is anti working class.. Corbyn is as bad as Hitler. But. we can forgive IDS? It's capitalism.Bout time we presented a logical caseI don't think its fair to accuse anyone of saying Corbyn is as bad as Hitler.
Is there a view that individual non-SPGB-members like Corbyn or Keir Hardie are what is holding the SPGB back?
DJP wrote:jondwhite wrote:So now we have Corbynwho is popular among Labour memberswho is popular among Labour supporters who are not memberswho has purportedly engaged non-political people with high turnout meeting rallieswho is averse to personality politics, more keen on movements than leadership and not seemingly a product of focus groupswhose policies are popular among the general publicSo do we continue to attack the man or play the ball?You've missed something from your list.."who is pushing the same old illusions that continually lock the working class into the reformist dead end"And this is "playing the ball" it's a comment on ideas, not the personality.
My point is stuff like that would have been more descriptive than the twitter image which read 'BS policies' or the Standard cover which said 'back to the 1970s' to which many voters might reply 'yes please'.
