Bijou Drains
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Lib Dem politics in a nutshell, let’s be nice to everyone and if everyone else is nice it will all be nice. Effectively that means keep things as they are and tie a few bonny bows around the trees in the local park.
I’ve spent quite a bit of time on the Have your Say part of BBC news over the last few days, They have links at the bottom of some news stories allowing you to comment on that particular story. As it’s an election they can’t delete any references to particular political parties, so it is possible to highlight the fact that there are real Marxists and real Socialists standing in the election. I don’t know how much people will actually see as it’s fairly fast moving and there is a work limit, but I’ve managed to get about 50 posts on line. If other party members were regularly posting on it it might create a bit of momentum (sorry I couldn’t think of another word). There are also lots of frothing at the mouth Tories who cry Marxist at everything, so it gives us a chance to point out that Corbyn et al are not Marxists, but that we are. I’ve managed to name check the constituencies a couple of times as well.
It appears the BBC are publishing all the manifestos of each political party. Is this something we should insist on being included in?
Hi Brian
I know it’s early days yet, but if you want me to come down and help out in the final few days before the election, I should be able to get down for the Tuesday to the Thursday of the election week. I can sort out my own digs as I have a few mates in the area, etc. One of my mates (I think you met Richard when I was down there a while back) is quite sympathetic to the party and I might be able to get him roped into doing a bit of work as well.
Let me know if I can help
YFS
Tim
Personally, I don’t think we should dismiss any kind of activity that any member, or group of members chooses to undertake.
I think for years the party has looked for some kind of magic bullet that would be the great recruiting sergeant for socialism, whether that be the internet, elections, the Standard, debates. However, fact is, there is no magic bullet, what appeals to one worker, might not to another and vice versa.
As a consequence we all need to be doing lots of different stuff, at lots of different times.
It looks like I should be able to help out for a few days on 10th, 11th & 12th, if that’s any good. I can go to Folkestone or Cardiff, whichever suits (although Cardiff is a bit easier to get to and I know a couple of sympathisers in Cardiff that I might be able to rope in)
He writes – “For my own part, I’ve been an anti-Marxist as long as I can remember but never bothered to look carefully at his writings.”
Kind of says it all really
My oh my, whatever next, Sylvester the Cat to enter the fray with his latest cartoon “I hate Mises to pieces”???
To me it’s not about life having a meaning, it’s about life having a purpose, i.e. being part of a movement that can help create a situation where so much needless misery is avoided and where all of the world’s people can have an opportunity to thrive.
I always think that becoming a class conscious socialist is a bit like the pill dilemma in the matrix, take the blue pill and remain in capitalist inspired ignorance, or take the red pill and see the world as it really is, well I took the red pill and there’s no going back!
robbo, is it possible that my interventions are driving people away from the forum?
I don’t think it is either.
Mind you, I don’t see people flocking to the forum to seek out the latest episode of L Bird v The SPGB, as a sort of parallel universe version of the Colleen Rooney v Rebekah Vardy spat, either.
I can only give a personal view, I enjoy the forum very much. I check it at least four of five times a day when I have a chance. It is probably the only place in the world where I see discussion that actually makes sense. I find it a huge boost to my morale to know I can have regular contact with fellow socialists.
I’m convinced that there are factors that predispose individuals to join (and this is something the Party needs to seriously research).
I think there are lots and lots of factors which predispose individuals to join the party. However what predisposes one in not what predisposes another. The latest idea of buddying up to Extinction Revolution, is a different cover version of a song that’s long been heard. In the sixties it was CND, in the seventies it was Rock against racism and the anti fascist movement, in the eighties it was anti poll tax, in the nineties it was the anti globalisation movement, in the 2000s it was Occupy, now it’s XR.
I think some members think there is a magic bullet out there, that if we just approach such and such a group they will heed our call, join the party and hey presto, mass party.
Yes there will be some workers who are involved with XR that might be open to our case, I think the vast majority are so involved in their single issue view of life that they will dismiss us without a second thought. I do think however, by putting up a case which counters the XR view of things we have more chance of attracting sceptical, questioning workers, who have a feeling that something ain’t right, but also have a feeling that XR ain’t that right either.
I think you should have done a bit of research before nailing “No body’s driving” as a fellow traveller who is a good example of who we should be targeting, here is a quote from what he/she has written about the need to avoid being dragged into the morality debate, which actually demonstrates the kind of regimes she/he favours when discussing the conditions in which decisions are made and what a Socialist Society must recognise:
“Further, it must organize itself taking into account these conditions, and provide a response based on a realistic analysis rather than a moralizing rejection of these conditions. A socialist society cannot survive by merely morally decrying the conditions it faces, it must recognize them as they are and act accordingly. The Soviet Union did not enter the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact out of a preference, but because it was seeking to delay war as long as it could so it could continue in the development of its productive capacity and survive as a socialist society. The Communist Party of China did not enter an alliance with the Nationalists during WWII because it desired this in a generalized manner, but because this was called for by the conditions of Japanese imperialist invasion. We socialists cannot simply act according to what we want to do in a generalized way, we must act according to what is necessary in a particular context if we seek the victory of socialism.We socialists cannot simply act according to what we want to do in a generalized way, we must act according to what is necessary in a particular context if we seek the victory of socialism.”
Are these the kinds of ideas you want to associate yourself with, I know I don’t. Doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of difference between what No Body’s driving has to say and what Stalin had to say.
I think the clown you have identified as a useful fellow traveller illustrates exactly why we should not get ourselves too excited about whatever new kid is on the block
Robbo “No one is suggesting we have to see eye to eye with fellow travellers on everything. The salient thing is that they and us have the same goal.”
No doubt an individual expressing the following viewpoint, could be classified as a fellow traveller, as their goal is the same as ours:
“The principle of Communism, is that in a Communist society each works according to his abilities and receives articles of consumption, not according to the work he performs, but according to his needs as a culturally developed individual. This means that the cultural and technical level of the working class has become high enough to undermine the basis of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour, that the distinction between mental labour and manual labour has already disappeared, and that productivity of labour has reached such a high level that it can provide an absolute abundance of articles of consumption, and as a result society is able to distribute these articles in accordance with the needs of its members.”
So according to the “let’s snuggle up to Fellow travellers viewpoint, we should be snuggling up to Joseb Besarionis dze Jughashvil or to give him his more well known name Joseph Stalin
Just completed reading through the online pamphlet and would like to add my compliments to the author, a well written and well researched pamphlet, written in the accessible style traditionally used by the real Socialist Movement, well done Comrade.
Hopefully it will persuade a few more to take the red pill not the blue pill
