Bijou Drains
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“they should have locked all the vulnerable away and had measles parties for the under 60’s with no underlying medical conditions.”
Interesting that you should say that. A recent criticism of the flu vaccine is that it has been given to the old, children and the vulnerable. As you grow older your immune system is less effective in accepting vaccines, a recent development is that there is a view that the best way to protect the old is by vaccinating the young.
Another factor in all of this is that the inhuman way that capitalism has developed “care” of the elderly. By placing them all together in one institution, to ensure their offspring can get out into the workplace and make profit, all of those with poor immune systems are placed together in one place. When infection strikes it runs riot with the unfortunate inhabitants.
It is a similar way to how capitalism deasl with dementia, i.e. take the people with memory loss away from the one place they know and feel comfortable in, and place them with a whole group of similarly confused people, in unfamiliar circumstances and then wonder why their confusion gets worse.
I am out and about as I am a critical worker.
As am I, and shitting bricks every day. The toll in care homes in SE Northumberland is frightening.
To reiterate, this isn’t anything like seasonal flu.
Week 1-15 2020 = 184,960
Week 1-15 2018 = 187, 780
What you’re not taking account of is that the 1st Covid 19 death, was not until week 10 and since then there has been over 18,000 Covid linked deaths in hospital. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, This does not include deaths in nursing and residential homes. The figures in the Republic of Ireland include nursing and residential homes the figures there are 769 deaths, but 348 of those deaths occurred in nursing and residential homes. Even if the rates in the UK are half of those in Ireland, that suggests another 25% on top of the UK figure of 18,000 which takes it up to 22,500 deaths, which puts it in the same league as the higher estimates of the ANNUAL number of flu deaths, in just 8 weeks.
At week 15 the claimed Covid death toll was approximately 4,000. Even if we add another 2,000 to that it still means there were another roughly 16,000 further deaths between week 15 and today. that is with a full scale lockdown in place. As I said earlier, and the data backs me up, a comparison between Covid 19 and Flu is completely puerile.
But hey, if you think the risk is minimal, get your self out there comrade.
Dave B
reports?????
or data
What I am saying is that the reports bring the data into question. Data is only useful if it’s correct.
There is a real problem with statistics. The UK government are working on an estimate of an additional 10% deaths in the community and care homes on top of the hospital deaths. However the figures for Ireland, which is counting deaths in care homes and in the community, show a split of 2/3rds in hospital, 1/3rd in the community. If the Irish figures are correct this would raise the UK deaths by another 50%. There are also reports however that in Sweden, Doctors are being discouraged from putting Covid-19 down as a cause of death, if there are underlying conditions. The conclusion is that we will not be able to do a full analysis until much later on.
What seems to be a clear pattern is, that those countries that locked down hard and early seem to be doing best, Denmark, Germany, South Korea, Ireland, New Zealand. Whether that is a long term benefit remains to be seen.
However to compare the Covid-19 deaths to a full season of flu deaths is puerile. The first Covid-19 death was only a little over 6 weeks ago, yet the figures for total hospital deaths are already at the same level as a full Flu season, if you put a rough estimation of community deaths in there, they are probably higher than a normal flu season, in only 6 weeks. Those figures are only going to get higher and higher in the coming weeks and months.
You only have to look at the number of medical workers dying from it to know that this is not comparable to seasonal flu.
One positive thing to come out of this, though. Little Mix and Westlife have cancelled their proposed national tours.
I suppose, luckily those of us living in the UK don’t have to make that choice. However I would add this to the debate::
would you rather have
a) A right wing populist who has many loathsome and anti working class policies and ideas, but who is unable to enact the vast majority of them due to a combination of the opposition he creates and the fact that he is clearly a moron.
b) A centre right bigot, nationalist and sexual preditor, who is up to his neck in promises to big business and who will probably be able to implement many of his slightly less loathsome policies and definitely more hawkish foreign policy decisions, because he doesn’t create as much opposition to his policies and he is not as much of a moron as Trump.
Personally it’s like being asked “which bollock would you like to be cut off”, my answer would be neither.
What is interesting is the counries at the bottom of the deaths per capita table all started lock down early and did lots of testing.
I haven’t had time to do it yet, but I would guess that if you correlated it to population density yoiu would also find a significant link, Belgium Netherlands have high population density and if you worked the figures out per capita in SE England I bet they would go right up.
That is a really useful article Marcos, thank you for sourcing it.
The virus escape theory seems like typical Trump approach, throw enough shite around and some of it will hit your enemies. Then you can use it to cover the fact that it was you that farted in the first place.
Nobody is suggessting that Bat flu hysteria case is on the same quantitative level as the Swine flu hysteria.
Actually that is EXACTLY what you are trying to do. If that was not the case why would you have mentioned it, if not to compare, then exactly why did YOU introduce this topic.
You suggest that there is something called bat flu hysteria, and swine flu hysteria. I am not interested in the hysteria, what I compared was the reality of the two situations, and came to the conclusion that they are not comparable. If you have any real, verified evidence to suggest that there is any comparison, why do you not lucidly present it, rather than make vague references to some bizzare swiss website?
For example:
“Northern Italy
It is true that two major vaccination campaigns against influenza and meningococcus were carried out in Lombardy in the months immediately preceding the outbreak of Covid19, notably in the later hotspots of Bergamo and Brescia. Although it is theoretically possible that such vaccinations could interact with coronavirus infections, such a possibility has not been established at present.
It is also true that a high asbestos exposure was present in northern Italy in the past, which increases the risk of cancerous lung disease. But here again, there is no direct connection with Covid19.
Nevertheless, in general it is true that the lung health of the population in northern Italy has been affected for a long time by high levels of air pollution and other detrimental factors, making it particularly susceptible to respiratory diseases.”
To be crude about it, so fuck. I live in Newcastle, the shipyards and the pits were full of asbestos. People are not dying here at the level they died in Northern Italy.
You seem to have forgotten your previous big idea that it was to do with the “prevailing winds”, or some such nonesense.
“It may well be that without the pressure of having to drag their bones out of bed every moring and go to work, some people are much happier having the chance to have a lie in, get some well deserved rest and enjoy a few box sets. Incidentally and in contrast”
How can you be so callous and self centred ?
Don’t be so insulting. I have spent the best part of 40 years of my working career with people at risk of suicide and I have I am not being callous, you clown. I am not playing down the risk of suicide. I was pointing out that. as usual, you have nothing but speculation to back up your view that suicide rates will go up because of the lockdown, as equally vaild piece of speculation is that the pressure of not having to go to work and complete mundane pointless work may actually be a benefit to some people’s mental health.
Another example might be the fact that all of a suddden local authorities and central government have managed to find funding so that all rough sleepers are given accomodation, despite having sepnt the last 40 years suggesting that it is insluable. This fact might actually be a factor in reducing the suicide rate. Additionally the fact that the rough sleeper problem can be resolved so quickly is, to me, another example of how easy it is for physical resources to be used to resolve social problems in extremely quick ways. A socialist society becomes more and more demonstrably possible with all of these examples.
Another example of the crap you are coming out with is
“A Swedish author explains in the British Spectator: „It is not Sweden that is conducting a mass experiment. It is all other countries that are doing it.“
So who was this mysterious Swedish author, none other than Fredrik Erixon, an “economist” known for his previous association with the free market think tank Timbro whos stated aim is “to promote every individual’s right to self-empowerment, and the ideas that individual freedom precedes economic equality, and that political power over individuals and businesses should be minimized.”
Just the kind of people you want to rely on during an international pandemic, much better to rely on some nut job right wing Swedish free marketeer, than mainstream epidemiologists. Next time you start pissing blood, don’t bother with a GP, get yourself off to see Nigel Farage, he’ll sort you out.
With regard to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, if you get a text on your phone saying “knock, knock” don’t answer it, the cunning bastards are working from home.
It’s affecting them disproportianately not because of the fact that they are black, but because they are poor. Other statistics show that minority groups have higher housing density rates a key factor in the spread of the disease.
Ask yourself this, apart from Doctors and Nurses, who are the key workers who are most likely to come into multiple contact with the virus (it is known that multiple contacts increases the morbidity rates). It’s the minimum wage workers who work in shops, distribution centres, who work as cleaners and domestics in hospitals, who empty the bins, work in care homes, home care and nuring home settings.
All of these settings have a higher than average number of minority groups working in them, add this to housing density and you have your answer. What have the hardest hit areas all have in common, London, Madrid, Lombardy, Barcelona, Wuhan? (and it’s not the prevailing wind, which Dave B put forward some days ago)
It’s population density!
When this virus gets into Lagos, Cairo, Istanbul, Rio, etc. it will really take off.
Yes I think it’s a lot of overblown sinister shite. We are into month five of this thing and precisely 566 people have died of the virus so far in the whole of Scotland.
The first case of Scotland was reported on 2nd March, so Scotland is only 1 month and 10 days into this. With the symptoms taking up to 14 days to develop, it’s less than this.
On top of that the ONS calculates that there is an under reporting of “at least 8%” of deaths, that brings the death toll up to about 612. There were 1,755 people in intensive care last night in Scotland with either diagnosed or suspected coronavirus. The survival rate from intensive care for coronavirus is not great.
The current rate of death is doubling every 7-8 days, although it is starting to flatten slightly, it is still rising. it would be fair to expect somewhere in the region of 3,500 deaths by the end of June, even with all of the social distancing measures and lock down. Without that it could run into the 10s of thousands.
To put that four month figure into context into a Scotland wide context, in the four month figure for Scotland Dec 2018-19, there were 340 deaths from chronic lower respiratory diseases (e.g COPD, Smoking related non cancerous diseases, pulmonary fibrosis, etc.), 170 deaths from pneumonia, 130 deaths from other respiratory diseases, and 100 deaths from flu. That is 740 deaths in four months for ALL RESPIRATORY DISEASES, compared to the possible deaths of 10s of thousands, if measures were not put in place, and you think that is an over reaction?
As to the idea that it is some kind of huge conspiracy to put in social controls on the the population, this theory is dangerous because it credits those in control of our society with too much ability and strategic control.
Do you really think that there is the talent and ability in our government to pull something like that off. You just have to watch Hancock’s half hour every night to see what a bunch of fuckwits are in control. They can’t even manage to organise to have enough plastic gloves, never mind a world wide consipiracy to take dictatorial control by inventing a mass media panic and then using it to their own ends.
Presumably, according to the conspiracy theorists, you would expect that the chief scientific officer for Scotland would be knee deep in this dark and corrupt conspiracy. Yes the Chief medical officer who breaks her own rules, goes up to her 2nd home in Fife and then posts a fucking picture of her self there on bloody twitter. Not the brightest member of the Illuminati, eh?
The political class (so to speak) in this country, and I am sure in all countries, are generally made up of vain, venal mediocrities, similarly the majority of journalists and media personalities. One way or another I have met quite a few of them through work and for the most part they don’t know whether it’s Pancake Tuesday or Sheffield Wednesday.
As for the Senior Civil Service, I have had to go down to Westminster a few times and work with some of them when they were carrying out a national enquiry surrounding Children’s Residential Care, and they could not look at a stick without picking up the wrong end of it, another bunch of clowns.
If you think that mob of privately educated goons, who entered work half way up the ladder because of Daddy’s connections, could conspire to pull something like this off, when they struggle to organise tea, coffee and biscuits, your sadly mistaken.
I am confident that if you took the case to other national governments, you would find exactly the same thing. Presumably good ol’ Donald would have to be part of this conspiracy. He couldn’t hold his own water never mind a secret like that.
So if it’s not them, who else could it be, the wise and wily capitalists, maybe it’s Tim Martin, who thinks that the virus “doesn’t spread in pubs” or maybe it’s the FCB himself Mike Ashley who thinks that sports wear is a vital service during lock down. Again I think you’re giving these pillocks far too much credit to think they have the wherewithal to do anything like this.
If you want to see how the political, journalistic & secret service wallahs, organise a conspiracy, take a look at the Watergate conspiracy, it was a complete shambles from begining to end. That’s the kind of conspiracy our ruling and governing classes are capable of, a complete fuck up!
“I’m a big believer in capitalism – but some markets simply don’t function properly in a pandemic, and the market for lifesaving supplies is an obvious example”- Bill Gates
So medicine, clothing, food, water and shelter are not lifesaving supplies unless there’s a pandemic?
Alan, as Robert Tressell put it:
“mingling with part of the crowd were a number of well dressed individuals dressed in long garments of black cloth of the finest texture , and broad brimmed soft felt hats. Most of these persons had gold rings on their soft white fingers and glove like calf-skin boots on their feet. They belonged to the great army of imposters who obtain an easy living by taking advantage of the ignorance and simplicity of their fellow men, and pretending to be the “followers” and “servants” of the lowely Carpenter of Nazareth – the Man of Sorrows, who had nowhere to lay his head”
From BBC News
“The Archbishop of Canterbury has issued a plea to crematoriums and local authorities to ensure they treat those who die during the coronavirus lockdown with dignity.”
Humans should have dignity when they die, the follower of the Nazareen Carpenter isn’t too bothered about them having dignity when they are alive.
“If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor” (Matthew 19:21),
Church of England net worth – £7.8 billion, £5.2 billion in investments.
Hypocritical old fucker
