Bijou Drains
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John, whilst I accept that humans are part of nature, they are are passing species which will disappear from evolution in the same way as they rose from evolution, it must be said that (at this particular point in time) they are remarkable because of the way that they have evolved and spread so quickly.
They have demonstrated behaviour on a scale that no other animal in the earth’s evolution have every done and impacted on the planet in a profound way. That is not being self congratulatory it is an observation based on what I know of both evolution and the history of the planet, as a matter of fact I can’t see how I can congratulate myself for something I didn’t do.
This behaviour has it’s origin not in our physical capacity, which is rather unremarkable when compared to other animals, or our sensory ability, which is similarly unremarkable. Any examination of why it is that humans have had the impact they have had involves an examination of how it occurred, i.e. what makes humans different not just from other animals, but for instance from our very near biological relatives. My contention is that it is the development of cognitive abilities, based on the use of internal and external language which have been responsible for this. I am not saying it is a good thing or a bad.
Differentiation is not a bad thing, it doesn’t demean from the whole. For instance if I am to differetiate between the Phytomyza ilicis and other forms of Agromyzidae I would look at the fact that the former mines holly leaves only, this doesn’t make is special, but it does make it unique.
Similarly I do not feel I have a feeling of superiority over any life form, however I do not have any qualms about killing other life forms if I need to or if it is in the interest of myself/humanity. In the same way that the bateria Yersinia Pestis is not concerned for me if it kills me, I am not concerned for it if I kill it.
But in this case it is more than a error of taxonomy (for which Bijou’s observer from another planet might be excused).
I’ve already said the observer isn’t bloody real, I made him up. He or she cannot be excused anything, he’s a fiction!
I think that key points I was trying to make are possibly being missed.
I used the idea of a visitor from another planet concept as a thought experiment about what contribution an outside observer could make with regard to the debate about the “difference between human animals and non human animals”. I did not assume anything about the visitor, I was trying to take an outsider view into that debate. I did not assume any characterics of the visitor, because the visitor hasn’t got any, I made the visitor up. What thoughts the visitor would have about “surface bacteria, or any other aspect of life on earth” are irrelevant, because the visitor is a fiction, made up purely for the purpose of this debate. I am sorry to disappoint readers of the forum, but the sad truth is that the visitor is not real.
As to what I was saying about language, I was not saying the use of language to communicate with others, which animals do have in certain aspects, is the difference between human and non human thought. it is the use of language in our own thoughts, our communication with ourselves, which is the element of human cognition which doesn’t appear to be present in non human animal cognition. This means that as a human animal I can remember and alter my thought pattern as a result of inner dialogue I had at a time previous.
Lev Vygotsky’s work in this area, especially his collection of essays, “Thought and Speech” is very interesting. Vygotsky was working on the concept of develping a Marxist theory of the psychology of development when he died. Although his work was hit upon by some of the American psychologists who air brushed out the Marxian nature of his work, this is fortunately now being revisited and the Stalinist and “Westernised” alterations to his work are slowly being filtered out.
There are clearly differences between humans and other species on the planet, this does not make them “better” per se, but the things that humans are very good at appear to be unique to humans.
If an observer from another planet were to observe the planet I don’t think the “tool maker” factor would stand out, other animals make tools, not to the extent humans do, but they do make them. I would also say it is not abstract thought, I believe other animals are capable of that. My dear departed cat (and I do use the words my cat, as I am sure I was his human) could clearly think abstractly. He could think about the consequences of me opening a door for him, he could think about what might be in the fridge, even though he could not see it. That is abstract thought.
What humans have is language, the importance of which is not only in terms of communication, it has a more profound impact on the way we think. Once we become verbal, at about the 2 year old stage, we start to think primarily, but not exclusively using language. I do some work teaching those who work with troubled children and young people and I often ask them “who is the person you speak to most in your life”. The answers come back, mother or father or partner. However the answer is yourself. It follows that the vocabulary you have the greater ways you can express yourself to yourself, if you can’t say what you think to others, it follows that you can’t say it to yourself. Through the process of his internal talk (technically known as the intrapsychic conversation) we refine and develop our thoughts and understandings, not only of the world outside, but also of our selves and our internal world. But more importantly we can store memory in language form and pass it on to other humans.
The mother cat has to show the kitten how to catch a mouse by demonstration, the mother human can tell her child how to carry out task as well as demonstrating it. Through this process of language use, internally and externally, the knowledge of generations can be built on and passed down, initially through the use of such things as story telling and verbal remembering, and latterly through the use of writing and reading. The sum total of cat knowledge is not that much greater than it was a thousand years ago, because once a cat has learned something, it is difficult for the cat to pass it on to the next generation, humans can do that through the use of language. This does not mean that humans are superior to cats, but their use of language means that their cognitions are vastly more sophisticated.
This does not mean that animals cannot think, they just cannot think to any extent, using language. It also doesn’t mean that humans are “better at thinking” than cats, as any cat would tell you (if they could speak).
Could we use the term Commonist, we are in favour of common ownership. Doesn’t seem to be poluted by leftist/leninists
The fuckwit opposite me, who is always into this sort of stuff, has put a whole load of bunting up with different flags on, strangely enough the bunting has the German, Japanese and Croatian flags included. I’d like to thing it’s because he has some sort of internationalist tendency, but I’m more inclined to think it’s becuse he’s a moron.
Interestingly the message boards for the BBC news site the same people who have been posting messages for weeks saying that lock down should end because it only kills old people and that doesn’t matter are today saying how important it is that we should celebrate the achievements of the “greatest generation”. I suppose it’s ok to have a street party for them, but to provide them with safe and appropriately resourced care it their old age is asking a bit too much.
ALB – “I don’t know about the rest of you here but I’m not going to download that app allowing my movements and who I meet to be tracked.”
Can I suggest downloading the App and if you’re going to the supermarket, out for a day trip, etc. take the phone with you. But if you’re meeting Carlos the Jackal for lunch, or going to a meeting of the illuminati, leave your smart phone in the house. 🙂
We were always taught in the party’s Speakers Class to avoid irony as people take you literally.
Are you being ironic when you say that?
Anti-mainstream view (and without conspiracy theory):
Interesting to read the views on epidemiology and virology put forward by CJ Hopkins, a minor US playwright. When I seek out opinion on matters such as world pandemics, I often turn to minor US playwrights, but only when I can’t get the opinion of a former Love Island contestant or a 1960s one hit wonder.
I know we haven’t got a socialist society, and perhaps he’s not a volunteer, but Piers Morgan has got the virus, can we make a start by experimenting on him?
L Bid – Nemesis, never, sparring partner and occasional leg puller, perhaps. Mostly though just glad to hear your safe and well.
What they are finding in my line of work is records made in digital are starting to decay and there is starting to be a problem with stuff that was stored digitally at the begining of the digital age, where the computer system used is now unavailable, Windows 1 was made obsolete 20 odd years ago, etc.
The Egyptians wrote on papyrus, some of which is still readible.
