ALB
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No wonder, Alex, that DJP asks if you're a primitivist (a 'caveman tendency' socialist)! You don't like cars (that was only an example) but what about computers? You can't be saying that each local community should produce its own?The way you have put the case for 'localism' goes beyond what others such as anarchists and Greens who favour a high degree of decentralisation have proposed. None, as far as I know, advocate that local communities should have to survive entirely on their own resources and envisage them either negotiating with other communities to get what they can't produce themselves or federating together to get access to what can't be produced locally. Murray Bookchin and those who think like him envisage more or less self-sufficient 'bioregions' but these would be more the size of a country than a small town or village.If you were to abandon the idea that each local community can produce all its needs you might have a better case as it's patently obvious that that can't work.
Alex Woodrow wrote:We, as human beings, are capable of producing an abundance of resources all in our local communities, hence every local community worldwide can stand on their own two feet.and
Alex Woodrow wrote:Local communities want to live a happy and healthy life by where they have enough resources to survive,These are two different things. Maybe some local communities, standing on their own two feet, might be able to produce enough to survive but at a very primitive level, but I don't think any would be able to produce an abundance of resources.I can see local communities in a socialist world being self-administering but that's not the same as self-sufficient. I can also see local communities organising the provision of various services locally, but the problem is the production of the materials used in providing these services, eg while cars and electrical equipment could be repaired locally (as in fact they are mostly today) they could not be manufactured in every local community (nor could the extraction of the materials to make them).I don't understand why you are insisting that local communities should not get manufactured resources from outside their boundaries or why you think this would undermine their autonomy.. I can't imagine many local communities rejecting this.As I said, self-administration yes, but self-sufficiency just doesn't make sense.
There already was a thread on this, so bringing them together:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/bulgarian-uprising
More publicity for the socialist idea here on the Lambeth Council website:http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/CouncilDemocracy/DemocracyElections/ElectionsVoting/StatementOfPersonsNominatedTulseHillNot only have they accepted a photo of Head Office instead of the candidate but they've also provided a link to one of our blogs which has an easy link to our main website.
As "Marxists" we have always held that the development of capitalism was "historically necessary" before socialism could be established. However, this has not been a unaminous view amongst socialists. Party member Ken Smith in his 1988 book Free is Cheaper argued that capitalism was not a necessary development in history:
Quote:The great contribution of Marx was to put the bourgeois system into its historical context; to show that society evolves just as much as animal and plant species evolve. He liberated it from the static world of Adam Smith, Ricardo, and their modern followers – there are none so blind as those who will not see. He insisted however, that it was contingent but also necessary. We now know that nothing is necessary in the world of experience; there is no amount of experience that will allow us to conclude that any historical event is necessary. Nature is full of blind alleys from the dinosaurs to Neanderthal Man.The bourgeois system, Capitalism, the Market system, call it what you will is not an essential pre-condition of a free-society, of a world where people co-operate freely to produce all they need and then help themselves to the proceeds, be they porridge oats or Porsche cars. Marx's theory argues that the Market economy was a necessary stage to provide the machinery-for-abundance which could be used fully once the ownership of land and everthing on it and under it was restored to the people.But there never was a problem of machinery, either mechanical or social. The human race has been discovering needs and simultaneously satisfying them since time began, from the eyed needle to the flint arrow-head, from printing to the water-mill. To the charge that the Middle Ages didn't develop steam power, we can reply that the nineteenth century did not develop electronics and we ourselves have not developed who knows what?The Market economy is a cul-de-sac leading nowhere. Much of that produced during the past five centuries, structures both physical and social, will be an enormous burden of garbage needing to be removed. Little of it could be used or adapted for a society producing only use-values.This raised some eyebrows of course but Ken was not expelled. In fact we distributed his book, because it's an easy to read case for a society of free access.Immanuel Wallerstein, the theorist of capitalism as a single world-system, took a similar position in his 1983 book Historical Capitalism: that capitalism was a contingent development (happened to develop) but not a necessary one (had to develop). Maybe, but what other form of society could have developed at the end of the feudal period? Wallerstein suggested a society of free and independent producers as in Switzerland once they'd driven out their feudal lords. Gerrard Winstanley obviously thought that a system of communist farms could have developed (and tried to implement this).Who knows? But it's a bit of an academic argument since we are where we are and can't go back to the 16th century and start all over again. Whether contingent or necessary capitalism is here and socialism is now unarguably a historical possibility on a world scale.
Oh i see. Yes of course parliamentary action is not sufficient as it has to reflect a majority desire outside for socialism. I thought you were talking about Jack Hughes's one-time position: that with this majority desire parliament wasn't necessarily necessary. Perhaps we should say that parliamentary action is neither sufficient nor necessary but the best and easiest way.
The Party will have a literature stall near this event on Sunday 14 July. It will be near the main entrance to London University at the top end of Gower Street (near Euston stations). This will be from 11 o’clock onwards.
I see that the leader of the GMB union estimstes that only 10% of his union members would opt in to paying a levy towards the Labour Party. That sounds about right, but Miliband and his entourage must be really desperate for power if they are prepared to make this huge financial sacrifice to get it. The Tories must be pleased that he is proposing to do what they have never dared to.If the GMB does organise a ballot on affiliation to Labour, maybe we should consider bringing out a leaflet arguing for a No vote. We must have some GMB members. Actually if I was still in my old union (APEX) I'd be one as this was later absorbed by the GMB. i.e you don't have to be a gasworker or a boilermaker.
Alex Woodrow wrote:Jumping to socialism straight away is possible regardless of what material conditions there are in a certain community due to the fact that there is the great idea of localism by where each community has local residents working together. This is why localism is so great, it has all the solutions. A world against globalization, by where there is peace and justice for ecology so every human being can live in harmony with one another.Localism may be a good thing but surely it is an exaggeration to say it has got all the solutions. There are certain matters which can only be dealt with at regional or global level such as mineral extraction or climate change. In any event localism can't be practised properly under capitalism because of capitalism's centralizing nature and that no locality can escape from the operation and application of its economic laws. Localism would only be able to come into its own within the context of world socialism which of course implies a degree of "globalisation". One of the things socialism will have to sort out is a balance between localism, regionalism and globalism.
One statistic that particularly stood out for me was the number of people stating that they had no religion: at 4298 out of the ward's population of 15771, this is 27.3%, which is higher than both the London average (20.7%) and even the national average (24.7%). See here. Our position on religion may still be a minority one but the trend is in our direction.
Hasn't this got something to do with the fact that UNISON was an amalgamation between NUPE (which was affiliated to the Labour Party) and NALGO (which wasn't)? It would be interesting to know which fund new members pay into unless they contract out and if this depends on where they work, eg ex-NUPE grades into the Labour one and ex-NALGO into the so-called general one? Or do they have a choice of which fund to pay into unless they opt out? Anyway, how many and what percentage of the membership pay to the Labour Party?
The point I was trying to make was that as more and more workers became socialists so would those in trade unions, so that these would come to support socialism too, financially and politically. And of course workplace organisations will have a role to play in the establishment of socialism.
Here's an explanation provided from memory by a member of Swansea Branch:
Quote:if I remember rightly, his argument was something like once we get socialist consciousness, we won't need necessarily need parliament to bring in socialism and in fact we can't foresee what means the Socialist majority will use to establish it once the idea is 'in the air'. So the Party is wrong to insist that parliament if of necessity the mechanism that must be used to bring in Socialism.
