ALB
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Interesting meeting in Oxford. From which we learned that the Magna Carta really dates from 1217 when it was readopted by King John's successor, Henry III or even 1225 (when it was definitively readopted). Mcnair's argument was that the current celebration of the Charter reflected the Whig interpretation of British history as one of gradual progress towards a constitutional monarchy such as was achieved in 1688, with the Magna Carta as the first step on this road. This contrasted with the "Tory" view that there was nothing special about it, but that it was just one event in mediaeval history, a view which is still being expressed.Mcnair said that the Charter could indeed be seen as a step on the road to the bourgeoisie winning control of political power, even though at the time it was a dispute between barons and their leader. He criticised those (such as Peter Lindeburgh) who see the Forest Charter part of a step towards the recovery of commonly owned land. Mcnair was particularly scathing in his criticism of this view, pointing out that the commons were commonly owned only by commoners in a particular area and that the goal of socialists was not to go back to this but to go forward to the common ownership of the whole world by everybody. No doubt his talk will appear some time in the Weekly Worker.It emerged from the discussion that Cromwell probably never did call it the Magna Farta but that this was something put about by the Royalists when they regained power in 1660. Also, that it really was a dispute between Norman barons and their leader. The proceedings were conducted in French and King John (or should that be King Jean) was a native French-speaking as was his son and successor Henri III. That the words "free men" in the Charter referred only to non-nobles who owned the freehold of the land they worked and so excluded over half the population who were serfs ("villeins") who worked the land for their feudal masters as well as themselves (and that the couple of rights given to women were to widows only of barons and free men). Also, that the Charter certain trading and navigation rights to the merchants of the City of London (the foreunners of the capitalist class)..I've since read a speech by one "Tory" interpreter of the Magna Carta, to which Mcnair referred, Lord Sumption of the Supreme Court (and literally a Tory). It's quite good. I hope that doesn't make me what Mcnair called a "Torified Marxist" (he called Sumption a "Marxified Tory"). The front cover of the June Socialist Standard would certainly seem to be in this tradition. The speech can be found here:https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-150309.pdf
Here's something they could cut (if cuts they have to);https://euobserver.com/defence/128300That's a higher percentage than even Britain which has imperial(ist) ambitions. Guns before electricity for pensioners, then?But I suppose their rightwing, nationalist allies in government (Greece's equivalent of UKIP) won't let them. Or maybe the colonels-in-waiting ….Also this from a couple of years ago:http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/03/07/germany-france-holland-sold-greece-e1-billion-of-arms-amid-debt-crisis/
Two of us are going to this meeting in Oxford tomorrow:
Quote:Guest speaker Dr Mike Macnair will speak at this Thursday’s Oxford CCS public meeting on The continuing contemporary irrelevance of Magna Carta, which will be held in the upstairs function room of the Mitre. As usual, there will be a short talk, Q&As, and discussion. The details are:The continuing contemporary irrelevance of Magna CartaSpeaker: Dr Mike Macnair (Associate Professor in Law, University of Oxford)7.30-9.00pmThursday 18 June, The Mitre, corner of High St and Turl St.We won't forget to ask him about the Forest Charter. He should know what he's talking about as he specialises in medieval law. He writes regularly for the Weekly Worker too.
We will be meeting at Mansion House tube station at 12 noon, to pick up leaflets and Standards, before dispersing to hand them out and try to sell them to the demonstrators gathering up the road outside the Bank of England (because the organisers think, or say they think, it was greedy bankers rather than capitalism that caused the crisis).
gnome wrote:ALB wrote:For the planned exhibition at Head Office in July on the 1945 General Election…..This July? Haven't heard or seen anything about it.
It's all fixed up now. Here's the details (being posted elsewhere too, with more details):
Quote:OUR '45: THE SOCIALIST PARTY AND THE 1945 GENERAL ELECTION A display about our election campaign and the election of the post-war Labour government at 52 Clapham High Street, London SW4 7UN. Open Saturdays in July 11am to 4pm. Free entry.More news from New Zealand:http://pictures-of-cats.org/new-zealands-conservation-minister-suggests-two-cats-per-household.htmlNote the nutter who wants to slaughter them all.
The man whose name you can't remember was John Archer and at the time he was not the mayor but a councillor even if he was a supporter of the statue. He didn't become mayor till 1913 by which time the affair was over. More on him here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archer_%28British_politician%29One interesting thing here is that he was elected as a "Progressive" (as the Liberals called themselves for local elections in London) for Latchmere ward. He would have been known to the party as that was one of the two wards the Party contested for Battersea Council that year. (For the record, in the three-member ward, the Party candidates got 117, 117 and 113 votes respectively).Just found this in the Socialist Standard for December 1906:
Quote:The "Progressive and Labour" candidates in Battersea ran under the auspices of the Battersea Trades and Labour Council, which consists of various trade union branches, Liberal associations, Radical clubs, etc. Many of the T.U. branches are affiliated to the L. R. C., and therefore while working with the Liberals, subscribe with the ostensible object of fighting them.The LRC was the "Labour Representation Committee" which later became the Labour Party. Archer in fact later became a Labour councillor.For those who can't be bothered to read up on the affair there's this three-minute video. I don't know how accurate it is but the affair seems to be more to do with the history of the anti-vivisection rather than of the socialist or even the working class movement.http://wn.com/brown_dog_affair
I'm afraid you've missed the point or even the joke and will no doubt prefer the leaflet we handed out for the exact same event in 2013:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2013/no-1306-june-2013/socialism-only-alternativeAll we need do is change "22 June" to "20 June". Or we could wait till they organise one on a 22 June again. I'm sure they'll be saying the same old thing themselves. These events are rituals anyway but, don't worry, we'll be there.You don't like our leaflet. You should see theirs, telling the new Tory government to end austerity !
No. It was just a pious resolution which doesn't change anything. There tend to be a few of these from time to time.. We'll be there as usual handing out the same leaflets as before. This one in fact, left over from a similar demonstration three years ago:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2012/no-1298-october-2012/future-worksWe'll probably be distributing the same in three years time too. These demonstrations keep coming around.
Let's hope the judge doesn't decide that they are "sturdy beggars" and order them to be branded — which, apparently, the Magna Carta didn't ban.
That's a good find and a good article, SP. All the more strange that, even at the last election, the SWP were calling for the election of a Labour government, both explicitly and implicitly.Another good pamphlet on the post-war Labour government is this one from the old Syndicalist Workers Federation:https://libcom.org/history/how-labour-governed-1945-1951.As well to have this information at our fingertips in readiness for the celebration in some quarters of the election of the election of the Attlee Labour government in July 1945.
I see they are invoking the Forest Charter to justify being there. Be interesting to see what the judge in Guildford County Court makes of it. Maybe he'll have to ascertain whether they are "freemen" or serfs.
That's why I said "planned" (by Archives and Campaigns), but I think it's going to be a low-key affair compared with what did for the outbreak of the First World Slaughter last year.
I don't know whether the new radical mayor of Barcelona really is proposing that all decisions are made by "citizens's assemblies", though I very much doubt it. Even so, the professor of constitutional law has a point: it wouldn't work. Such direct democracy has its (severe) limits. Anyway, it's not what we propose in socialism, where some decisions can be taken by assemblies, some by referendum, some by answerable and recallable delegates and some left to "experts". I agree that even in socialism "I don't go into a restaurant and tell them how to cook". Nor, when I turn on the tap at home, am I interested in deliberating how the water got there. I'll be satisfied that it does. As has been pointed out here before, in socialism we're not going to spend all day deliberating and voting on everything.
For the planned exhibition at Head Office in July on the 1945 General Election I dug out this leaflet produced (in the 1960s, I think) by the comrades in Belfast. It's a reminder to those (eg Ken Loach) who look back on the 1945-51 Attlee Labour government with nostalgia that Old Labour was just as bad.
Quote:LABOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE WORKERSYour Labour candidate will advise you that you can improve your conditions of life by voting Labour. His Party, the Northern Ireland Labour Party, are at one with the British Labour Party. Below we give some details of Labour Government in Britain :(1) Used CONSCRIPT TROOPS to BREAK strikes.(2) Imposed a "PAY PAUSE" and "INDUSTRIAL CONSCRIPTION."(3) Used (in peace time) a wartime Order, 1305, in an effort to have striking trade unionists JAILED.(4) Had workers RESISTING BLACK-LEG LABOUR sentenced to IMPRISONMENT and FINES under old PROPERTY-PROTECTION ACTS of 1875.(5) Agreed to, and tried to justify, the dropping of the FIRST A-Bomb on Hiroshima.(6) Safeguarded the interests of British capitalism by nationalisation of bankrupt industries.(7) Sent British troops to AID DUTCH IMPERIALISM, and IMPRISONED and BANISHED African leaders.(
Imposed the FIRST CHARGES on the "free" Health Services.This is but a small part of Labour's black record when it waged war against the workers in the interests of British capitalism between the years 1945 and 1951. We challenge our Labour opponents to deny or "explain" these terrible happenings.In this Election the UNIONIST AND LABOUR candidates stand for the MAINTENANCE of CAPITALISM. Only the WORLD SOCIALIST PARTY challenges the capitalist system and proposes an alternative—SOCIALISM.BEFORE VOTING YOU HAVE A DUTY TO CONSIDER THE SOCIALIST ALTERNATIVE.Printed by the Cranmour Press, 49a Mountjoy Street, Belfast 13, and Published by the World Socialist Party, 185 Donegall Street, Belfast 1.
