ALB
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Vin wrote:We have to criticise his form of 'common ownership' and recognise it is not the same as Stalin's.Or we will look stupid.
We've never said or even implied that his "form of common ownership" is the same as Stalin's (which wasn't even a form of common ownership, except by a collective exploiting class). That would make us look stupid but we've never said it was or even that "the remove nationalised model that prevailed in post-war era" was.
Vin wrote:Corbyn's criticism of the old clause 4 is the very same criticism we make of it.We criticise Clause 4 because it includes "of exchange" which implies the existence of markets, banks, etc. I don't think that's his criticism. In fact I don't think he would criticise its wording at all. His criticism would be of the way the term "common ownership" was interpreted by previous Labour governments who provided for the state-owned industries to be run by state-appointed boards while he wants there to be some sort of "workers control" of them. Not at all "the very same criticism".
Actually, if you want an immediate solution to an immediate problem then there's no point in voting for the Green Party except perhaps in some places in local elections. You'd have to vote for a party that had a chance of forming the government at national level. In practice, the Labour Party which might just, perhaps, deliver it maybe if economic circumstances allow.More effective would be to organise with others in the same situation in a trade union, claimants union, tenants association or whatever (depending on the immediate problem). We have never opposed this or denounced it as reformist. In fact it's what we say about what to do "in the meantime". We don't get involved as a party as our aim to propagate socialist ideas, though individual members can, do and have done.
imposs1904 wrote:A Tom and Jerry front cover would be a bad idea. Please don't.It was only meant as joke (the was the clue), too tempting given the names of the Leader and Deputy Leader. I just thought I'd be the first to make it (though I got from another member). Don't worry it's not going to happen.
Vin wrote:What if 'Labour leaders' become delegates?Actually, Corbyn does seem to be a genuine democrat who wants Labour policy to be decided by the membership instead of being handed down from on high. Whether he will be able to deliver on this is another matter, especially as his deputy, Tom Watson, is a machine politician and has already stabbed him in the back this morning over NATO and Trident. He was the man who tried to overthrow Blair to make way for Brown and could be the man to organise a coup against Corbyn when the time comes. It looks as if it's going to be another episode of Tom and Jerry (another idea for the front cover? )
I thought I'd check on what SPEW, SWP, TUSC and LU are saying about Corbyn's election.Here's SPEW:http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/21392/12-09-2015/corbyn-victoryThey want to be invited back:
Quote:At the same time the party should be opened up. All those who have been forced out or expelled in the past for fighting against cuts and for socialist ideas should be invited back.The SWP are not so keen:http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/41297/SWP+statement+on+election+of+Jeremy+Corbyn+as+Labour+Party+leaderHere's TUSC:http://www.tusc.org.uk/17115/12-09-2015/victory-for-jeremy-corbyn-now-lets-build-a-movement-to-stop-the-tory-cutsBe interesting to see if they really do stand against Labour in next year's local elections.Here's what LU said before he was elected.http://leftunity.org/jeremy-corbyn-a-new-moment-a-new-movement/Of note these passages:
Quote:Left Unity understands that some of its members will view joining the Labour Party as the avenue for supporting this new movement. Some have already left in order to campaign and vote for Jeremy. We wish them well and recognise that in ending their membership they are not renouncing the shared politics which drew them towards our party in the first place.(…) We will introduce a ‘friends of Left Unity’ category whereby those who have chosen not to remain members can continue to receive our newsletter and participate in joint discussion and common action on issues that unite us.They seem to accept that many of their members will drift back to Labour.
Here is a circular email from Jeremy Corbyn received at Head Office yesterday:
Quote:Hello, It is a deep honour to be elected as the Labour Party's new Leader. The honour is not about holding office — it is about the opportunity to serve you in the fight to get a better government for our country. I want to pay tribute to Andy, Yvette and Liz. As the last few weeks have shown, each of them cares passionately about the Labour party and its values and has made a fantastic contribution to it. The Labour Party is the joint endeavour of each and every one of us that believe in fairness, equality and social justice. If you share these values then I want to use your talents to make us stronger, and I want to represent you. So, help me be your representative. When I stand at the despatch box for Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday, I want to be your voice.What do you want to ask David Cameron? Tell me now and I will put your questions to him in parliament. My questions will be your questions.Here's my question for David CameronLet's hold this government to account together with straight-talking, honest politics. Thank you for your commitment to building a better future. I look forward to working with you. Best wishes, Jeremy CorbynIf you have a question for him to put click on "Here's my question for David Cameron" but, be warned, you'll end up on a Labour Party mailing list.Also in our inbox was this message meant for SPEW:
Quote:I want to cancel my membership to the party as I want to support
Jeremy Corbyn by joining the labour partyI imagine SPEW and TUSC and Left Unity will be receiving many more such messages. Which could turn out to be the most significant fall-out from Corbyn's election: the return to the Labour Party of the prodigal leftwingers. In fact both Corbyn and the new Deputy Leader, Tom Watson, in their acceptance speeches explicitly welcomed them back.
How do you know members weren't present? As a matter of fact at least one member was present at one, in Newcastle. Watch out for his article on the war-caused refugee crisis in next month's Socialist Standard.
Actually, I think the front cover should be on the refugee crisis, but could go along with "Can Corbyn defeat austerity, where Syriza failed", especially as it looks like Syriza, having failed, is going to be voted out of office on 20 September.
A suggestion:
Quote:the next Standard cover should be pictures of Watson and Corbyn with the strapline: Landslide! New Syriza leaders electedDon't all shoot at once.
Yes, just woolly stuff about justice, fairness, equality, democracy, peace, etc. (I think the only one he didn't mention was freedom). Not bad ideas in themselves but nothing on how to achieve them.
Here's our (no doubt) better one from about the same period:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2004/no-1198-june-2004/introductory-course-socialist-theory-syllabus-social
Yes, we do have a member who has said he is willing to stand for Mayor. But to stand a candidate/party needs to put down a deposit of £10,000 (returnable only if you get 5% of votes) and obtain 10 signatures per London borough including the City of London, i.e 330. In return, the candidates election message will be included with that of the other candidates that will be distributed free to every elector in London (some 5 million people).Some have argued that this is a no-brainer. The problem wouldn't be money but getting the 330 signatures. Having said that, we got 100 to contest the 10 seats in the general election, so its probably doable if tedious. Up to ADM to decide and volunteer signature-seeks to come forward.There are also elections to the (toothless) Greater London Assembly the same day. Two branches have indicated they would like to contest a constituency (which covers 2 or 3 London boroughs with an average electorate of over 350,000). The deposit is £1000. There is no free postal distribution.
