[ALB]

Drinking, smoking, gambling and being married are not the same as being "addicted" to them. In fact I'm not sure what an "addition to matrimony" might be.

[ALB]

The main subject of the debate turned out, inevitably, to be the Bolshevik coup and Lenin's distorted definition of "socialism" as state capitalism. As the Party speaker I used quotes from Second International figures to show that prior to 1917 socialism had meant a classless, stateless, wageless, moneyless society based on the common ownership and democratic control of the means of production, and that it was Lenin who introduced a false distinction between "socialism" (a state capitalism where everyone becomes a hired employee of the state) and "communism" (what socialism originally meant).Everyone condemned the parties of the Second International though Jack Conrad ended up vigorously defending making the same mistake as them of having a "minimum programme" of democratic and social reforms to be achieved within capitalism as well as a "maximum programme" of socialism (however defined), which meant that they became the prisoners of their reformist supporters and voters and one reason why they went completely reformist. He also called for the setting up of "workers' militias" but conceded that weapon training for his party's members had not yet started.The other pannellist, Robin Halpin, argued that the revolution should begin by straigntaway abolishing private property and money and the link between work and consumption. He talked about the "ontology of labour" and said that capitalism was in "terminal decline" because it couldn't cope with the replacement of living labour by robots. He was against having anything to do with the State (in fact he came across as an anarchist) and a vociferous critic of the Bolsheviks for their "coup d'Etat" and suppression of the independence of the soviets. He was billed as "translator of workers by the Exit! group". Not been able to find out much about them but apparently they are something to do with, for or against, the ideas of the German philosopher Robert Kurz, if anyone knows about them.Discussion continued afterwards in a "wine bar" which some of our members were reluctant to enter but it turned out that it did serve lager too. It's still not clear to me what the Platypus Group, whose members here all seem to be students, stand for. One thing they do favour is debate, which is a good thing.

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Emma Goldman was an individualist anarchist who held, as they do, that the majority was always wrong and that all progress comes from the action of "intelligent minorities" (like her). Not one of us.

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We debated Pistono four years ago. Meanwhile capitalism hasn't collapsed:https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/subject/federico-pistono

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Audience of about 30, mainly students. Six of us in the audience.  Mark Osborn, the Trotskyist, cried off at the last moment, which meant that the panel was 2 to 1 against Bolshevism-Leninism. Report follows.

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I still wonder whether this is not tit for tat between Russia and NATO. Russia stirs things in the Baltic States. The West stirs them in Belorussia. The last time the West did this was in the Ukraine when they arranged for the pro-Russia government to be overthrown and sparked off the civil war there. Fortunately, I don't think they'll be able to start a civil war in Belarussia, just a bit of sabre rattling.

[ALB]

mcolome1 wrote:

Moral issues of the  Churches and priests  of the left. That isn't new

Actually, it's quite good on religion, giving them all any equal kicking:

Quote:

The PHML disapproves of all cultures, beliefs, faiths, and practices that do not rest on sound logic or facts .Thus, belief in God, gods, or ghosts, belief in religion and religious rites and rituals, idolatry, palmistry, astrology, homoeopathy, acupuncture, ayurved, alternative medicine, and other similar stuff which each are just a load of rubbish, from the perspective of an enlightened human, are in conflict with the PHML.The concept of an omnipotent God is just a piece of the silly and benighted. The enlightened know it's the truth, not God, that happens to be all-mighty. And the main drawback of the idea of God the Creator is the fact that nothing but nothingness can emerge out of nothingness. Sir Isaac Newton also believed in God the Creator, but he forgot outright to throw light on how God created the great big universe with billions of stars, planets, moons, meteors, comets, black holes, pulsars, quasars, nebulae, et cetera, et cetera out of the infinite vacuum. Nevertheless, Albert Einstein who discoveredE= mc2 outright dismissed the Newtonian God the Creator. According to Einstein, the universe cannot have a ' Creator ' because it was never created— the universe, as Einstein believed, existed all along and will exist for all eternity ; it is without beginning or end, and hence cannot have a ' Creator ' or a Destroyer. The god aswell as the ghost is also, as the enlightened view it, the fruit of a flight of fancy befitting the silly and benighted.' Faith is stronger than reason, ' says the silly. But the enlightened know the faith is little more than a set of unscientific, ridiculous ideas and beliefs. Faith isn't enlightening ; nor does it have an answer to any problems relating to life or the universe, be it the accumulation of wealth at one pole leading to the pauperism of billions at the other or the phenomenon of global warming or the social pollution due to the barbarian institution of matrimony ( the poor and vulgar marry and procreate just to swell the army of the poor and vulgar and the gang of the antisocial and terrorists, and thus they pollute the society ).Christianity preaches universal love and forgiveness, which means Christianity wants you to love and forgive both the good and the bad, i.e. all the innocent along with the culprits such as thieves, robbers, murderers, smugglers, abductors, gangsters, druc peddlers, girls traffickers, child abusers, Mafiosi, extortionists, rapists, terrorists that pumped shot into Malala, the ISIS gunmen that committed the Paris massacre, et cetera, et cetera. Thus, it ought to be obvious to every sensible human now that the Christian faith is truly the path that is certain to lead the human civilisation to extinction.And what does Buddhism truly teach ? Buddha's principal teaching is life is a boundless sea of grief. Therefore, Buddhism asks its followers to seek nirvana , the Buddhist variety of suicide, meant to escape the life that has got nothing but no end of sorrow and suffering for you.Islam preaches jihad and mut'a , you know, and Islam is also known for its feminophobia*. ( * fear of the female ) Islam is so afraid of literate, free girls that it has asked its followers to spray acid, in order to punish girls that love freedom and learning, onto their faces and riddle them with bullets. And jihad means killing innocent humans, young and old, male and female, and both kafirs and non-kafirs ( i.e. those Muslims that refuse to obey dictates of jihadis). And mut'a is the Islamic name of what you know as prostitution.And as I view it, Hindutva (Hinduism of today) means barnashram, the nonsense called idolatry, worshipping beasts (e.g. the holy cow and Hanuman, the monkey god), and banning beef eating. The enlightened view barnashram as something that not only is a downright falsehood but is an affront to the humanity, as well. And Hindutvaites love and respect beasts like cows and hanumans more than humans— so much so that they might even kill you if they can know you eat beef or do not worship Hanuman.Like palmistry and idolatry, none of astrology, homoeopathy, acupuncture, et cetera are sensible or scientific, as the enlightened view them.

Good stuff. I like it.

[ALB]

ALB wrote:

Meanwhile here's what the "moderate" rebels recently booted out of eastern Aleppo are up to

More on the "moderates" here:http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=63332

[ALB]

Revealing article in today's Times under the headline "EU migrants leaving as pound falls":

Quote:

European Union migrants are leaving Britain because the collapse in the pound has cut the value of their pay, according to the Bank of England.Foreign workers send much of their earnings home and the 12 per cent fall in the pound against the euro since last June's referendum means that work in the UK is worth less than before. This has reduced the incentive to take a British job as well as convincing some EU migrants to leave.The Bank said that companies were now struggling to recruit from abroad. The findings, in the Bank's monthly agents' report, suggest that the impact of Brexit on exchange rates could prove the most decisive factor in bringing net migration closer to the government's target of tens of thousands a year.Last month's official figures showed that annual net migration had fallen below 300,000 for the first time in two years. Foreign construction workers at the Battersea power station develop­ment have left the country because of the collapse in the pound."There was little evidence of EU migrant workers leaving the UK due to its plans to leave the EU," the agents' report said.

So it was a question of workers coming to get a higher paid job and, now that the pay is lower, less are coming and some are leaving — the simple operation of supply and demand in the labour market. And now the poor employers are short of workers, unless they increase wages of course. 

[ALB]

Most of what you list is ok. But I don't see why a person who wants a classless, stateless, moneyless, communist (socialist) society has to forego smoking and alcohol:

Quote:

The PHML requires you to lead a healthy, both physically and mentally, and meaningful life. In order to remain healthy and strong, you have to avoid all unwholesome food and stuff like alcohol, tobacco products, narcotics and all such things that lead to addiction or morbidity

That strikes me as a personal choice which a political party can't require of its members (we have vegetarian members but that's up to them. The rest of us eat meat). Same goes for "matrimony". Of course it's a private property institution but should members be expelled if they get married? Should we refuse to admit new members who are married? I don't think so.

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I don't understand why there were invited back and one of them given pride of place on our General Discussion thread with his name in flashing lights.

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JohnD has put up this original piece of research on LibCom:http://libcom.org/history/bordiga-early-political-viewsInteresting to see what comments it brings there.

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There is a difference, Alan, between expressing commonly held views and prejudices (as our porcine friend is doing) and promulgating pet schemes thought up and held only by those promoting them (as three others currently here are doing). We don't really need to discuss with these crackpots as everybody else can see straightaway what they are.

[ALB]

This forum is becoming a cranks' convention. I suppose nobody else would be so tolerant of them but they just take advantage.

[ALB]

Socialist Standard April 1932 wrote:

In 1920 when a British Labour Delegation visited Russia the Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries each issued a full statement of their position. These were included in the Report of the Delegation (Published by the Labour Party and Trades Union Congress, London).If the Mensheviks could be judged solely on this declaration of Socialist principles there would be little to find fault with.

The Menshevik document in question has now been published on the internet:https://www.marxists.org/archive/martov/1920/07/thesis.htmIt is very revealing. Quite a radical document, giving quite a different picture to that sometimes painted of the Mensheviks.

[Author]

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