Save the Socialist Standard
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ALB wrote:LATEST NEWS: NO DELEGATES VOTE TO STOP THE PRINT EDITION OF THE SOCIALIST STANDARD. On an indicative vote the motion was rejected at Annual Conference today by nil votes for, 12 against and 2 abstentions. The motion now goes to a vote of the whole membership
That is a very good decision. I know of several organizations that are running on red ( loss ) but they continue printing their newspapers, and I know others that were printing their newspapers, and they are not printing it, or digitazing it
ALB wrote:LATEST NEWS: NO DELEGATES VOTE TO STOP THE PRINT EDITION OF THE SOCIALIST STANDARD. On an indicative vote the motion was rejected at Annual Conference today by nil votes for, 12 against and 2 abstentions. The motion now goes to a vote of the whole membershipTwo questions: 1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?2. Why does the membership have to wast energy and resources voting on such an unpopular idea?
Vin wrote:ALB wrote:LATEST NEWS: NO DELEGATES VOTE TO STOP THE PRINT EDITION OF THE SOCIALIST STANDARD. On an indicative vote the motion was rejected at Annual Conference today by nil votes for, 12 against and 2 abstentions. The motion now goes to a vote of the whole membershipTwo questions: 1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?2. Why does the membership have to wast energy and resources voting on such an unpopular idea?
They need a shower on world reality. There are still many peoples reading printing materials, and there are many peoples around the world who do not own a computer, or do not know how to use them.There are peoples in certain parts of the world who must go to a library to rent a computer per hour, or they must go to a commerical center to rent one.It is something similar to a Stalinist group which is claiming copyright over the works of Marx and Engels, and MIA must delete all of them, and a single volume will cost $50.00 E. There are many workers around the works who can not spend $50.00
Marcos, with all due respect, i think it is you who should show some reality.It is far easier for those people in certain parts of the world to access the Socialist Standard online than to have a print copy available to them. We have extremely limited retail outlets even in the UK much less in other countries. Like yourself, i lived and have lived some years in the developing world and have seen the computer habits of the poor. They do not frequent the library, even if there is any for them to use, but as you say, they go to an internet cafe which are relatively inexpensive – so much so that when i have had occasion to resort to their use, i had to wait for some kid to vacate playing computer games for me to get on a computer, at a cost much less than the price of the Socialist Standard and a lot less than a subscription. (i should also mention that another means of accessing the internet is through their schools and colleges via tablets/smart phones which they can do for free and increasingly wifi is also free in shopping malls and public buildings)As i said in previous posts, i fully expected this suggestion to fail but unpopular ideas have to be discussed and as i also said, the question will return in the future simply because the issue of declining sales of the Standard, won't be going away, Vin. We have in the past discussed the usefulness of owning premises and the existence of the HO will return as well, and a look at the accounts still reveals that is a vast drain on the party finances and resources with debatable benefits for the Party. Many organizations do have both the digital and the hard-copy production of their literature – but the main focus and concentration are on their online editions. The print is secondary. The resolution had an amendment, one that i felt Lancaster Br was happy with, that we have alongside an e-ine, print editions produced regularly but not monthly.We have missed an opportunity to present the socialist answer to the media to be downloaded weekly and even daily. It is a missed opportunity to have the AV committee up their game to providing ever new and fresh animations which can never ever be applied to a paper magazine and as you witness, cannot be readily placed on our website.
alanjjohnstone wrote:Marcos, with all due respect, i think it is you who should show some reality.It is far easier for those people in certain parts of the world to access the Socialist Standard online than to have a print copy available to them. We have extremely limited retail outlets even in the UK much less in other countries. Like yourself, i lived and have lived some years in the developing world and have seen the computer habits of the poor. They do not frequent the library, even if there is any for them to use, but as you say, they go to an internet cafe which are relatively inexpensive – so much so that when i have had occasion to resort to their use, i had to wait for some kid to vacate playing computer games for me to get on a computer, at a cost much less than the price of the Socialist Standard and a lot less than a subscription. (i should also mention that another means of accessing the internet is through their schools and colleges via tablets/smart phones which they can do for free and increasingly wifi is also free in shopping malls and public buildings)As i said in previous posts, i fully expected this suggestion to fail but unpopular ideas have to be discussed and as i also said, the question will return in the future simply because the issue of declining sales of the Standard, won't be going away, Vin. We have in the past discussed the usefulness of owning premises and the existence of the HO will return as well, and a look at the accounts still reveals that is a vast drain on the party finances and resources with debatable benefits for the Party. Many organizations do have both the digital and the hard-copy production of their literature – but the main focus and concentration are on their online editions. The print is secondary. The resolution had an amendment, one that i felt Lancaster Br was happy with, that we have alongside an e-ine, print editions produced regularly but not monthly.We have missed an opportunity to present the socialist answer to the media to be downloaded weekly and even daily. It is a missed opportunity to have the AV committee up their game to providing ever new and fresh animations which can never ever be applied to a paper magazine and as you witness, cannot be readily placed on our website.. Alan I am in contact with many peoples from different countries ( continents and islands ) constantly, even more, I purchased a commercial printer several years ago in order to send printing materials to peoples that I know because they did not have access to a computer, they did not have money to get one, or to go to a rental center , or they do not like to read digital filesNow I do not have so much free time like in prior years because I am studying , but before I was a member of 85 discussion forums, and I was able to make a long lists of contacts, and I was runnign a forum WSM in Spanish, , and many of those peoples they asked me for written literatures, because there are peoples who have computers but they do not like to read digital filesMost of the peoples that I know are from the left, Communist parties, and Leninist parties, and Anarchists, and they are not at the present time living in good financial conditions.We have a member who does not know how to use a computer and he lives in Europe, and I have placed long distance call to talk to him, and I have a special long distance account to talk to some of them, and I know that they have financial problems, some of them are using the telephone of friend or a relative.There is a world outside of this forum that we do not know, we are Eurocentrist, we want to encircle in our little world, and that is one of the reason why we are not getting members from other countries or others parts of the world. The Maoists and the Hoxhaists are getting membes of different nationalitiesSince I am moving to another ( where I am planning to get sympathizer for a companion party ) , I gave my whole collection of the works of Marx, Engels, Lenin , Stalin and Trotsky, and my complete law library to two leftists organization because they preferred written materials in order to do their research. I did not give them to the SPGB because the mailing cost was too high.There are still many peoples who preferred written materials, I am one of them, I have several computers, laptops and tablets, but I do not like to read books online, even more, when I started to study the principles of the WSM I printed most of the pamphlets and articles.What we can do is to publish a daily or weekly articles online, but we must keep the printed publication of the Socialist Standard, WSPUS is publishing nore than 14 articles everyday, and RCPUSA is publishing digital materials and printed books newspapers and articles.The Communist Voice Journal ( ex-Hoxhaists ) is being printed every month, and I know that they do not have too many financial resources
I am sorry for the duplication. I pressed save twice
alanjjohnstone wrote:We have missed an opportunity to present the socialist answer to the media to be downloaded weekly and even daily. It is a missed opportunity to have the AV committee up their game to providing ever new and fresh animations which can never ever be applied to a paper magazine and as you witness, cannot be readily placed on our website.Why not do both?
Vin wrote:1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?IIRC the movers of the motion abstained on their own motion.
jondwhite wrote:Vin wrote:1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?IIRC the movers of the motion abstained on their own motion.
I think you'll find that only one of the movers abstained, the other abstention was the comrade in the chair who abstained on every vote as a protest against the principle of 'indicative voting'.
gnome wrote:jondwhite wrote:Vin wrote:1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?IIRC the movers of the motion abstained on their own motion.
I think you'll find that only one of the movers abstained, the other abstention was the comrade in the chair who abstained on every vote as a protest against the principle of 'indicative voting'.
Cheers, I stand corrected.
gnome wrote:jondwhite wrote:Vin wrote:1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?IIRC the movers of the motion abstained on their own motion.
I think you'll find that only one of the movers abstained, the other abstention was the comrade in the chair who abstained on every vote as a protest against the principle of 'indicative voting'.
As delegates, wouldn't they have been obliged to vote for the motion agreed in branch?
It depends on the mandate from the branch: also the original introduction of indicative voting left the question of disobedient delegates open, suggesting that voting against instruction could be a clear signal that something important came up in debate. Part of the point was to incentivise sending delegates to conference, and making the debate matter.I think it may be worthwhile empoweing delegates from the proposing branch to withdraw their motions in the light of debate: I think that's the next step.
jondwhite wrote:gnome wrote:jondwhite wrote:Vin wrote:1. So the movers of the motion did not vote in favour their own motion?IIRC the movers of the motion abstained on their own motion.
I think you'll find that only one of the movers abstained, the other abstention was the comrade in the chair who abstained on every vote as a protest against the principle of 'indicative voting'.
As delegates, wouldn't they have been obliged to vote for the motion agreed in branch?
As the branch in question declines to make the minutes of its meetings "freely available", how the delegates were mandated will forever remain within the realm of speculation.
gnome wrote:As the branch in question declines to make the minutes of its meetings "freely available", how the delegates were mandated will forever remain within the realm of speculation.That remains an outstanding request which has received an unacceptable reply.
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