ALB
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As you say, the same spouted by NATO when they bomb cities. The politicians and the media are saying that this is the first war in Europe since the end of the last world war. But of course isn’t. In 1999 NATO bombed Serbia. Buildings were destroyed and civilians terrified and killed as “collateral damage”, as is happening in Kiev and Kharkov at the moment. TV reporters there are interviewing civilians and sympathising with their plight but they weren’t in Belgrade in 1999 to report the plight of civilians there. It’s all a bit one-sided and hypocrisy.
I see there have been some anti-war demonstrators in Russia.
Here’s a curiosity. An interview with the conman, Oleg Vernyk, who scammed us and quite a few other organisations in Europe and North America into believing that there were people in the Ukraine who accepted our principles. He even addressed one of our conferences. We even sent a couple of comrades to Kiev to meet him and his fellow conmen.
He is (and probably was then) an orthodox Trotskyist as can be seen from the interview. From which it can be seen that the Ukrainian trots are opposed to both “Western imperialism” and “Russian imperialism” — or were, because the interview dates from before the invasion.
Abenezer, here is a less simplistic and, as it has turned out, more realistic explanation of what’s going on, even though it was written before the events of this morning. Also interesting as it’s from a group based in Germany and deals with the ambitions of the German State.
My mistake was to assume that, as the bloc trying to change the status quo, NATO would back down in the end. Some NATO states (and in fact the president of Ukraine) seemed to want to do this but were overruled by the US with the support of its poodle the UK.
It’s an invasion but hardly an “unprovoked” one. As a spokesman for the Chinese ministry or foreign affairs is reported as saying:
“When the US drove five waves of Nato expansion eastward all the way to Russia’s doorstep and deployed advanced offensive strategic weapons in breach of its assurances to Russia, did it ever think about the consequences of pushing a big country to the wall?”
Both sides are to blame and ultimately the capitalist system.
Yes I have to admit that AC has been proved right that the NATO leaders would not be prepared to compromise on their aim of incorporating Ukraine into their sphere of influence, knowing that the stakes were higher for Russia than for them. And now it has to come to this.
Abenezer, read that link Robbo has just put up. It will answer some of your questions and maybe help assuage some of your concerns.
Actually, the first part — “the facts” — of that CWO/ICT statement is really quite good. It’s what follows which isn’t as they repeat their mistaken analysis of why there are wars under capitalism;
“The bourgeoisie does not walk down the path towards war just because they feel like it, but rather because they find that, in addition to attacking the working class, it is the only path to alleviating their cyclical crisis of the tendency for the rate of profit to fall over time.”
I think they would be hard put to justify NATO’s attempt to incorporate Ukraine in to its sphere of influence and Russia’s determination to stop this and perhaps bring Ukraine back into its sphere as motivated by a desire to alleviate the falling rate of profit.
Nordstrean 2 is nicht kaputt. As PJS has just pointed out, it has already been built. It is inconceivable that it won’t be used and will simply be abandoned. So its opening has only been postponed.
I am not suggesting that that will happen only that it’s one possibility. But. yes, it would involve Ukrainian forces not shelling the statelets.
In any event according to NATO Russian soldiers have been there since 2014 (that their explanation for why they are not regarding this being “legalised” as the famous invasion) and so will have been being shelled.
So when do we think all this is going to be drawn back and some kind of compromise reached?
One possibility is that nothing else happens, as after the take-over of Crimea. Russia stays in control of the two statelets (which are actually larger than the two Baltic statelets Estonia and Latvia) and the low level sanctions continue.
The situation will change only if one or the other side ups the ante, NATO by threatening more sanctions unless Russian troops withdraw from the two breakaway statelets and Russia by trying to expand into the area claimed by the two statelets but currently under Ukrainian control.
Neither side’s ultimate option is on the agenda — neither a generalised Russian invasion not Ukraine joining NATO.
Yes, what is striking is that at least in public and in rhetorics the Western politicians (and the tame media) show no indication that their actions will have contributed to the crisis. Personally, I think “NATO aggression” wouldn’t be the wrong word.
Sounds as if that could be one reason why the EU is interested but I suspect NATO’s interest will be more geopolitical, to try to press home its victory in the Cold War by continuing to kick Russia while it is down.
Anyway it has nothing to do with defending democracy. The Economist Intelligence Unit classifies Ukraine “a hybrid regime, somewhere between a flawed democracy and an authoritarian state”. And of course it has its own oligarchs.
“Sanctions against Russia
After all the big talk about what would happen if Russia invaded, just a slap on the wrist; just five banks and a trio of oligarchs targetted. Perhaps they feel partly responsible for the situation by pouring arms into Ukraine which were obviously going to be used at some point to try to crush the breakaway statelets.
And who will be collateral damage — the workers as usual, in this case with even higher gas bills.
And what can we say about the despicable Labour Party — “the Party of NATO” — and its despicable leader. He probably would have let Savile off the hook if it would increase his chance of becoming prime minister.
Johnson has clarified the situation. According to him the invasion has not begun:
“Boris Johnson has said.
‘We will immediately institute a package of economic sanctions. This is, I should stress, just the first barrage of UK economic sanctions against Russia, because we expect I’m afraid that there is more Russian irrational behaviour to come … [The sanctions] will hit Russia very hard, and there is a lot more that we are going to do in the event of an invasion.’
