alanjjohnstone
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"What 'laws' you regard as universal, Alan."Probably the very same as your own, and much of the 10 Commandments stripped of the religion.The UN has with various conventions tried to define those. The declaration on human rights, for instance, requires only the minimum of amendment to be applicable in socialism. Taking one issue already stated, the UN convention define a child as anyone under 18. Me, i think that is too old. We in the party do not define such either on biology, judging eligibility of membership on a simple basis, the understanding of socialist ideas and we have no time for any two-tier membership, such as a youth wing. After all, in Scotland we let everybody over 16 vote in the independence referendum. So yes even such 'universal' opinion on a child diverges. I have seen and you most likely too have witnessed prejudice and bullying. But likewise i have also in my own lifetime seen incredible shifts in attitudes, the most obvious has been on womens equality and gay rights and on race/ethnicity. No doubt there is still a lot more ground on all those to re-claim but for now i am pleased with much of what i have seen in the changed behaviour of people i once knew as bigots and their newly acquired more relaxed attitudes.Sadly this isn't universal applied and exercised and if we understand uneven development then we need …sorry – socialists at the time …must come to agreement on how to treat such backward cultures. The complexities and the complications that you, Brian and myself also understand of putting into practice democratic principles of justice and respect and dignity begins well before socialism and we know capitalism itself creates much of the change even if it is for its own reasons (eg, the pink pound) We have attitudes and behaviours that have been decided as norms to be adopted by all and those have been codified over centuries in common and criminal law that has been constantly updated and amended to encompass changes. YMS has said , why re-invent the wheel. For sure, we can and we must improve upon what we have but we have the basis already in existence…The co-option of our peers to perform as jurors to hear the evidence and decide the outcome of arguments that are presented by advocates with an independent person overseeing the fairness of the procedures. Obviously problems arise on that one person's role in imposing the appropriate sanctions but then there is a appeals process and an appeal process to the appeal process.We also have a parallel process in medically defining mental health issues, being sectioned, and compulsory detentions under that currently exists. Is that too be immediately abandoned?I think there is always a risk of mob justice when we have no recognised and accepted means of determining "truth"…LBird's constant reference of it being democratic is certainly reflected in the jury sytem where 11 or 15 people vote on what the" truth" is,(having been legally forced to perform that duty and not from any ideological inclination to choose to participate)I'd be very intersted in our members who actually are qualified or experienced in the legal and justice system for their prescriptive options because as you say it is not a simple black and white dichotomy but various shades of grey.Again, i have to say this all to do with the original question , on the capture of the State. What will be the role of the police….Will traffic cops still patrol the motorways and have the power to stop and detain bad drivers or badly maintained vehicles …Or are those powers transferred to other agencies…Who detects and investigates criminal behavious and acts? Who, to return to the above, determines the worth of the charges and initiate the justice process? We aren't utopians or saints…we know socialism won't create the perfect world and we will at the beginning inherit the crap of the past…and the legacy will be the State which the new socialists must determine which parts are useful or redundant. But do we wait for some mythological Day of Revolution that all the debates and the change begins or do we also engage in struggles beforehand…(bringing me back to the other thread on reform and reformism). Is it valid to deem it unnecessary to campaign or support campaigns against discrimination of sections of society, here and elsewhere?
John, I certainly don't disagree about the deep emotional bonds that can be made by having an animal as a companion. The benefits of such relationships are reciprocal. I am always reminded that one of the early signs of a psychopath are expressions of cruelty to animals at a young age, whereas for others, caring for an animal can deepen feelings we have for all living things. Paradoxically, the fact that i have had to get the vet to put down animals in the past, has made me somewhat an advocate for human euthanasia too.
When a member of the Socialist Party deigns to pay attention to the views and opinions of another member then i have to wonder what great insights and knowledge he or she hold that cannot be improved or modified by any discussion or debate (which also he or she declines to share) and when that member has the self-inflated importance to use the plural "we" as if he or she talks for and on behalf of all of the party and not merely present a personal perspective, then i believe that member presumes far too much.My compliance to moderation guidelines means i can't express my response as i wish with a two-word bluntness, the first word having four letters and the second word being OFF.
You seem to overlook all my contributions to this thread and are having a knee-jerk reaction to purposefully provocative comment that is fully justified.It is a pun on the title of the book quoted in the link I provided “Time To Eat The Dog: The Real Guide To Sustainable Living” by Brenda and Robert Vale, who analysed the ingredients of pet food to estimate common pets' eco-footprint. Their study – featured in New Scientist.I have already drawn attention to the Asian dog-meat industry in an earlier post but as you say, why it should attract more protest rather than the industrial production of pig-meat or chicken is rather hypocritical?i know first hand of the cruelty to stray dogs in India, (knowing volunteers with ARK…Animal Rescue Kerala) and then now in Thailand.I have had neighbours who regularly eat dog and i have seen poor migrants from Cambodia cooking and eating rat as well. The preponderance of dog-eating is not in fancy restaurants. Halbeath followed up by making the valid point that the pedigree dog industry has become an immensely profitable industry despite producing dog breeds with in-bred genetic problems. Puppy farming has become a scourge for the RSPCA. Many compassionate animal lovers hope for the end of this sentimental attachment to pets and seek to hasten its demiseIn the UK to produce the cat-litter has ecologically damaged local communities with their clay pit workings. The RSPB make annual reports on the destruction of wild bids by domestic pet cats that is on par with any pesticide pollution. To satisfy home design aquariums have become a furniture fitting but to stock them tropical fish are trafficked illegally.Supposed animal lovers are callous. I speak as someone who has three dogs and now a new kitten, all unwanted from the street and were doomed to suffer a short unpleasant and unhealthy life. But such individual sentimental acts of compassion is no solution to the problems and the rabies that is epidemic in many parts of the world.
Couldn't resist posting this article on what could be called a form of self-cannibalismhttp://www.newsweek.com/does-eating-your-placenta-have-any-health-benefits-339603
Lets get rid of pets – eat the doghttp://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pets-leave-huge-carbon/1893368.htmlOwning a Great Dane can hurt the environment more than driving the SUV.(But i always wonder about all those bodies and remains of murder victims that are found by a person walking the dog …)
The translated text of the Charter of the Foresthttp://info.sjc.ox.ac.uk/forests/Carta.htmThe Forest Charter legacy as claimed by modern-day forestershttp://www.newforestnpa.gov.uk/info/20088/fascinating_history/135/medieval_forest/2P209 of Communities and Courts in Britain 1150 to 1900 cites a 1389 royal decree to anul the Charter as part of the reaction against the Peasants Revolt and how it was defied by rich and poor alike. Only the Restoration of Charles created the poaching laws culminating in the 1723 Black Act which made 200 capital punishment offences that we view as typical from our 21st century eyes. It was also the 19thC Enclosure Acts that signed the death knell for many rights to the commons designated by the Forest Charter.I do suggest that the Charter was crucial in an on-going class war, between king, nobles and common people and as in the situation at the time nobles allied with peasants against the king. Later when nobles became transformed into the land-owning class of Gentleman Farmer, so to speak, they then combatted the poor small-holder and the landless to deprive them of their access to the forest.If the poor were unaware of the source of their rights it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't make use of or defend those rights. https://books.google.co.th/books?id=HxVMW9hGeDEC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=peasants+revolt+charter+of+the+forest&source=bl&ots=q4Ix83kGQ4&sig=VpCofMp2-NgVlbSc9OSDL8Waxms&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UuJwVfrMM4yWuQSJ34H4Cw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=peasants%20revolt%20charter%20of%20the%20forest&f=falseThe ramifications of the Charter of the. Forests was widespread. Robert L. Galoway in his paper "Accounts of some of the Earliest coal workings on the Banks of the Tyne" concludes that due to the Forest Charter's prohibition of the breaking of ground involved in the mining of coal this prevented the employment of coal in anything but a very small scale.
Vin,I recall not too long ago in America , a 18 yr old was sentenced to life imprisonment for having consensual sex with a 16 year old which was classed as statutory rape because of her age…i recall a very long time ago, Jerry Lee Lewis being banned from the UK for following the Southern custom of marrying his 13 yr cousin, (and it was only in 1928 or 1929 that the age of consent in the UK was raised from 13 to 16.) Remember the custom of running off to Gretna Green?…a 16 yr old was permitted to marry in Scotland without parental consent but not in England for she was still a minor until she was 21.Only quite recently has consensual homosexual sex with an under- 21yr old male has become legal in the UK until it was equalised. Around the world the legal status varies…Do we condone the local custom of death for particular sexual behaviour? In all the recent rape cases in the press in India, it is a country with strong anti-sexual harassment laws where the mere way of looking at a woman can be classed as a crime (called locally eve-teasing) yet the law doesn't necessarily offer protection, does it, when not enforced. I also specifically mentioned that age of consent changes when a person in a position of trust is involved (and in the case of mental health well-being, the physical age is irrelevant)…and i asked isn't that cultural too as i inferred an employer isn't deemed such a person.The definition of a child is also cultural and is recognised by various laws on criminal culpabilty, for instance, such as the Jamed Bulger killers or Mary Bell. Even between Scotland and England there is a difference in age of responsibility…12 in Scotland but 10 in England whereas in some states in the US it is as low as 6. These are the cultural blurred factors i intended to raise about law…not your extreme example which i think may be more to do with your own branch incident. You are ignoring the entire context of my message was made in. We have laws in place that endeavour to bring a socially acceptable definition to a code of social behaviour (whether efficient or not, we can see by the differences i have made it is not easy)…i raised the question…what is good for Auchtermurchy, is it good enough for Llanelli. i do argue that some laws are unversal and should be applied over and above local custom and practice. Brian's original comment tended to say that local rules take precedence. Again, the question is …do we when socialism is establish still apply the rules and conduct as defined in law-books, or do we immediately abolish law and permit lynch-law, which lets be honest, is often the first response and reaction a community has to a particularly nasty and anti-social crime. Hud i think agrees that these things are complex complicated questions to decide a priori, so isn't it sensible that existing law stands until it evolves into something else…which means such things as identified as the State (to once more return to the thread topic) such as police, courts, judges, prosecution services, lawyers and jails do remain until they are adapted and modified over time.
Don't tell me you want to resurrect the Clarion Cycle club to distribute the StandardWe have a German comrade, Norbert Sanders (i haven't heard of him in a while) but he was a full time employee of a bike co-op/NGO group in Frankfurt that made maps and guides and cooperated and coordinated with the city council and others to promote bikes as alternative travel.
For those with the time a video of Chris Hedges talking about his latest book (ALB, i think he is actually talking from a pulpit !) He is quite good on the importance in a revolution of disaffection of the military.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d0jphETPnM
Old Labour stakes their claim. Jeremy Corbyn enters the contest (and it's doubtful he will even get the required MP nomination)http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33000155
ALB, do i detect an opening for someone able enough to translate Blanqui into English and perhaps produce a small pamphlet. Or at least add material to the Marxist archive.
A quote that may provoke thought
Quote:Castoriadis: “I think that immense tasks are to be accomplished on the level of elucidating the problematic of revolution, of denouncing falsehoods and mystifications, of spreading just and justifiable ideas, as well as relevant, significant, and precise information”; As for the rest, we can do nothing: the workers will struggle or they won’t, the women’s movement will spread or it won’t … But what one should feel responsible for is that in France [for example] there are at least hundreds of people who are thinking by the problematic that matters to us … The only way to find out if you can swim is to get into the water.”Cited in Chamsy Ojeili's articlehttp://www.democracynature.org/vol7/ojeili_intellectuals.htm
Motion 2. Motion: Kent & Sussex Regional Branch"Conference is of the opinion that the Party should not participate in demonstrations which are in support of reformist demands or of organisations to which we are hostile. Conference therefore upholds the terms of the 1938 Party Poll."Vote 2 For 68 Against 48. Carried.This recent decision still has the troubling problem of defining what is a reformist demand…i.e. the repeal of any anti-union laws and defining which organisations we are hostile to. Would campaigners for repeal of anti-immigration laws be on the list taking into account Colin's list of what the party is opposed to ….racism, sexism, homophobia, in short any ideology which seeks to divide the human race against itslef, particularly the working class. I note the motion does not forbid participating in demonstrations alongside organisations we are hostile to, merely forbidding being in support of them. Again do we actually hostile to such reform umbrella lobbyists as No Borders and what they endeavour to do. We may disagree with them over their chances of success but do we actually oppose them trying to change attitudes towards migrants and asylum-seekers and on a prcatical level campaigning against existing legislation and their implementation. So can i present this scenario.A protest is held to highlight the detention and deportation of so-called illegal immigrants. It is called by coalition of charities and the demonstration will be attended by a wide variety of participants, including Trotskyists with their banners and placards. Would the above motion forbid ourselves from being present with our own banner arguing for "World Socialism" and publically offering sympathy as fellow workers to fellow workers in socialist solidarity and join the demands that the detention and deportations should end.
In its own feeble way our Socialist Courier blog has tried to describe many events and persons from Scottish labour history, trouble is that they are scattered around the archives of the blog and requires extensive use of the search facility.If we wished to, by collating and re-editing, we could easily produce a pamphlet of sorts from all the varied posts that the two branches could then publish. Or we could make just an online version. Either way, it would help to dispel the impression that the Socialist Party is a London/Home Counties organisation, that many believe it is.
