alanjjohnstone
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"manual labour"And mental labour. Perhaps it has been wrongly emphasised by myself but it is labour both of the hand and the head that transforms nature into useful wealth.In regard to your leaders, Marx gives the example and talks of the conductor of an orchestra as being also vital to this process…so you and we do agree that there requires to be co-ordination and co-operation and in particular occasions someone is selected to administer affairs. Engels also suggests that a captain of a ship is still going to be in charge and he no doubt would say a pilot of an aircraft is necessary to be the person with the final say. Even the anarchist Bakunin agrees to the competence of the cobbler to decide for him the best shoe. But are they leaders in the way you seek to explain? We say no. We are against the political power function of leadership, not against the acquired authority of those with special skills and learning being recognised as someone to heed the advice and knowledge of. Which of us would reject the surgeons expertise? But remember, these people have taken years to acquire the privilege of bestowing and sharing their talents, school, university, professional training…but tell me exactly where the University of Prime Ministers is? (i'm sure a wit would say Eton and then Oxbridge)…But anyone with a glib tongue and a sales-persons demeanour can be elected and then impose his or her will upon others, using force if necessary, which is legitimate and legal under the law.You discuss the dawn of time when it comes to organising…Simply look at how the American First Peoples organised for war…they followed someone they respected as a war chief…not as a political chief…if he proved successful they were with him…when he failed to bring victories, they deserted him…he could not impose his leadership upon his warriors by conscription or the draft only by accomplishments. It seems that you are blind to the website's extensive and elaborate content as DJP suggests. We are for the abolition of private property and the implementation of one of the oldest customs and traditions humanity has developed for its collective survival, the principle "from each according to ability, to each according to need." , an end of the exchange economy and the introduction of free access this means the abolition of wage and money and those working in occupations related to commerce/capitalism transferring to socially productive work. And the emphasis is on socially productive and not simply shifting money around to benefit a small minority of people , or speculatiing which is very basic…buying cheap and selling dear…yet ignoring the fact that the value of the object is in its manufacture , not its circulation. We stand for the free common wealth…or as another put it "Store-houses shall be built and appointed in all places, and be the common stock…And as every one works to advance the common stock, so every one shall have a free use of any commodity in the store-house, for his pleasure and comfortable livelihood without buying and selling or restraint from any." -Gerrard Winstanley in the 17th CI don't know why you dismiss the term "wage-slave" so easily…countless numbers of people follow their hobbies without payment because they enjoy it. People have their gardens and their allotments and happily tire themselves out working…but place that person on a farm and demand he or she exhaust himself for a wage by denying any other way to support him or herself and their family and that the fruits of this work is taken from him and the rewards of placing it on the market to be sold and bought then ask if that person is not a slave. Someone who well knew what it meant to be a chattel slave and a wage slave explains it thus " The difference between the white slave, and the black slave, is this: the latter belongs to ONE slave-holder, and the former belongs to ALL the slave-holders, collectively. The white slave has taken from his, by indirection, what the black slave had taken from him, directly, and without ceremony. Both are plundered, and by the same plunderers" – Frederick Douglass 19thCBut we are not unique in condemning wage slavery. Read this article by the IWW if you do not trust our own website as representing the ideas of socialism correctly. http://socialiststandardmyspace.blogspot.com/2006/09/what-does-iww-mean-by-abolition-of-wage.html
Isn't Trump more the Ross Perot of this election rather than really a Republican candidate ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot
In the meantime and in the absence of a forthcoming official statement, the SOYMB blog has patched together thishttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2016/02/irelands-2016-election-is-off-and.html
Will our phantom, will o' wisp WSP of Ireland be issuing an election statement that we can post on various Irish social media sites?
In the case of Flint, do we claim drinkable water as a right, as in eithera) consumer right, after all, Flint residents are paying for it and should be suing when they fail to receive what they have bought.orb) a right to exist since potable water is a necessity for all.The SPGB position has i think been that workers possess no rights, only the occasional privileges granted to us by the ruling class but isn't our propaganda about the free access to food clothing and shelter and in a sense a demand for those "rights" to be satisfied.Isn't a "right" couched in terms of morality.Our approach should be that as members of society we "deserve" sustainable drinkable water sources and that cost-cutting by capitalism fails to provide such. That it is interlinked to the fact that pollution of the water by industry and commerce has made a basic of life itself contaminated and unusable and that city authorities are declaring a new water network replacing the lead piping too expensive to do. Whereas in Scotland lead piping is now illegal and even in the house plumbing includes free replacement if lead exceeds a certain level but would supporting such a change for Flint city council to adopt be an act of reformism? Or back to position b).
Can you tell me when the Rockerfeller family, founders of Standard Oil, dirtied their hands drilling for the oil? You should study the history of that dynasty to see just how they acquired their wealth. Perhaps you may refer me to the family of Saud who "discovered" and invested his money to extract the oil under "his" land. I may be wrong but isn't Saudi Arabia the only country named after a ruling family clan? Another history for you to read about. It is labour that transforms natural resources into wealth. Muscle, sweat and toil and more often than not, blood. Research your mine disters in Virginia. 2010 negligence by Massey Energy was only the last example of the expendibility of the miner. CEO Blankenship was never ever a miner but an accountant. The importance of labour in creating all wealth was a fact recognised long before Marx and was acknowledged by Adam Smith. But why heed classical economists. Didn't Abraham Lincoln say "Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed." ?Why not study "the Enclosures" of England ( a similar process took place worldwide and is still going on) Stealing common land from the poor and driving them to seek work in the cities…factory fodder…It was the Chinese worker in the Foxconn factories that created Steve Jobs and of course we all "know" that Apple pay their due in taxes, don't we? The 19thC industrialists were rightly called "Robber Barons" "The law locks up the man or womanWho steals the goose off the commonBut leaves the greater villain looseWho steals the common from the goose.The law demands that we atoneWhen we take things we do not ownBut leaves the lords and ladies fineWho takes things that are yours and mine."Do your homework before repeating myths. When a so-called self-made man says hard work brought him riches, ask whose hard work?
Cuba's widening inequality gap, particularly along racial lineshttp://news.yahoo.com/cuba-racial-inequality-deepens-tourism-boom-142651737–business.html
Quote:It seems to me that Socialism is something that would only work if implemented simultaneously on a global, worldwide scale; essentially forming one super-nation in which everyone works hand in hand with one another.You are indeed right in thinking we envisage socialism as being established globally and almost simultaneously. As fr back as 1847 Engels wrote
Quote:Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone? No. By creating the world market, big industry has already brought all the peoples of the Earth, and especially the civilized peoples, into such close relation with one another that none is independent of what happens to the others.Further, it has co-ordinated the social development of the civilized countries to such an extent that, in all of them, bourgeoisie and proletariat have become the decisive classes, and the struggle between them the great struggle of the day. It follows that the communist revolution will not merely be a national phenomenon but must take place simultaneously in all civilized countries – that is to say, at least in England, America, France, and Germany.It will develop in each of these countries more or less rapidly, according as one country or the other has a more developed industry, greater wealth, a more significant mass of productive forces. Hence, it will go slowest and will meet most obstacles in Germany, most rapidly and with the fewest difficulties in England. It will have a powerful impact on the other countries of the world, and will radically alter the course of development which they have followed up to now, while greatly stepping up its pace.It is a universal revolution and will, accordingly, have a universal range.Ideas are a social phenonomen and cross borders. Personally i refer to how music genres arise and then travel the globe, or how fashions are adopted across cultures. But where we differ is that you seem to think that we will buy off the capitalists that somehow governments will nationalise and pay compensation to the capitalist class. You say it would be immoral to do anything other but i have to disgree. We are the dispossessed, we are taking back what is rightfully ours in the first place. A look at history demonstrates how the capitalist acquired their wealth. An even the argument that self-made men deserve their riches is false. Apples Steve Jobs ideas would have remained just that…thoughts in his head if it was not for the millions of workers in China building his phones etc…they made his wealth. This reply, of course, does not do justice to your BIG question and i hope others will offer their contributions or that you yourself come back with more questions. But i will end with this. "But if blood be the price of all your wealth, Good God! We have paid it in full!"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty8X_LvGYGI
In a recent exchange, LBird, on what is socialism and what is imperialism with Sepehr, i fully expected you to demand that he declare his ideology and then confront him from your extensive knowledge of Marx and Engels.But it seemed as if you were more interested in scoring debating points with Dave B rather than challenge someone who is a much a greater threat to workers democracy and workers control. Again on this thread when someone queries what is meant by socialism he does not get a direct answer from yourself but instead is offered a critique of the other posters, rather than explain your view on the question he asked. Our task is to make socialists….hand on heart, can you say that is your highest priority? Or has debating half-dozen on the forum become your pet hobby and favourite pastime.
Again for those who insist upon not following the Party blog the water poisoning has been covered by SOYMBhttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2016/01/poisoning-kids-to-cut-costs.htmlhttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2016/01/flint-poisoned-people.html
If i was interested in discovering more about what socialism means, this thread cannot be recommended, can it? Our blog tries to give a explanation of what we consider socialism to be if you haven't been driven away, The SpanishInquisition. http://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2012/11/socialism.html#moreI take from your screen name that you would like to interrogate and quiz our answers and we would certainly welcome your cross-examination and i think this blog essay will provide you with specifics that you may wish to challenge and debate.
Quote:Universities account for around half of all animal experimentation in the UK. UK’s leading universities are responsible for testing on almost 1 million animalsQuote:Monkey experiments conducted at some universities were said to involve animals being deprived of food or water, having electrodes implanted in their skulls or limbs, and being blasted with loud noise while trapped in a box. Other “disturbing” experiments allegedly included rats being injected with acid to cause brain damage, and pregnant sheep injected with testosterone twice a week or having their ovaries punctured during surgery.Ths might be of interest to some http://libcom.org/library/capitalist-internationalism-trounces-petty-greek-nationalism-mouvement-communistekolekti
Lets keep some perspective on words. When we say capitalism is evil it is simply saying it is a nasty system that is cruel and heartless, but we don't mean it is a living being with these emotions, do we… When we say the devil is in the detail…we don't mean there is a devil…As two members who has often pointed out how we alienate possible potential supporters/sympathisers by our sometimes rigid attitudes, i'm surprised you both think we should avoid every-day language that everybody understands. Socialism is a case for empathy and altruism – human solidarity
