WSPUS and Transgender
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can’t we all just take a neutral stance? gender isn’t a class issue. whatever our private foibles (and me, being a colossal pervert, i don’t half fancy half and halfs), feminism and transgender activism divorced from class (yer basic intersectionality) is bourgeois.
can’t we all just take a neutral stance?
Depends who you mean by “we all”. I’m not sure if the socialist party needs to take a position one way or another. But there are seemingly insoluble conflicts of interest here, I don’t think everyone will ever agree.
What jars me off is the “we are morally correct and if you disagree you are a fascist” brigade.
instead of saying “I’m not sure” i thought i was being more definite. socialists should not take a position one way or another. one pats the various identitarian factions on the head, sympathises greatly with their real or imagined problems. and gets on with socialism. or whatever passes for it.
yes, well, everyone fucks me off. morality mongering weasels especial.
i’ve been lagging on replying to this stuff cuz i’m an asshole lol
rob, i’ve actually seen a couple TRAs say everything should be unisex, even sports. madness.
DJP, what i mean when i say falsifiable is basically what you’re saying: the definition has to refer to something specific. if i order spaghetti at a restaurant and i instead get served a plate of shit, i need to be bale to explain why that plate of shit isn’t spaghetti. this is where the definition having to not be circular comes into play. also, i’m not saying we should tell them they’re talking nonsense. there may be a physical reason for this phenomenon, but to attribute it to some unproveable concept like a gendered soul is blatantly idealist. but that’s basically an unconscious assumption of the only 4 definitions TRAs ever give you for what a man or a woman are.
AJ, there should be LGBT wings in men’s prisons to prevent transgender males from being raped. to send them to women’s prisons after so many women have been raped that way is unacceptable. it just happened again in washington recently.
rob, almost every “trans woman” on twitter would disagree with that statement, call you a transphobe, say there’s no such thing as a man’s or woman’s body, then tell you to suck their “lady dick.” also, that study’s equating sex characteristics with sex itself. someone’s sex is based off which reproductive path one went down after gonadal differentiation. that is the singular determinant of sex. certain structures only develop in one of the 2 directions. LMAOOOOOO! THEY QUOTE ANNE-FAUSTO STERLING TO BOLSTER THEIR POINT! SHE LITERALLY ALREADY ADMITTED SHE WAS TROLLING WHEN SHE WROTE “THE 5 SEXES”! XDDDDDD
I urge people to read 5 Sexes for themselves and then decide (a) whether it is POMO and (b) whether it did or did not have an echo of Jonathan Swift (A modest Proposal)
— Anne Fausto-Sterling (@Fausto_Sterling) December 31, 2019
Thread: (6) Gender activists began to think through the concept of binary sex and to explore the intimate dance between sex and gender. Some people "got" that mine was a "Modest Proposal" (and no, I do not think Swift really wanted people to eat children)
— Anne Fausto-Sterling (@Fausto_Sterling) February 18, 2020
also, rob, Zach Elliot already ripped that article to shreds lol
and it’s not a generalization to say there are only two sexes. sexes are reproductive roles. there are only 2 gametes, and thus only 2 reproductive roles. TRAs like to bring up mushrooms here., but mushrooms don’t have sexes, they have mating types. even when species are hermaphroditic, there are still only 2 sexes lumped together in their reproductive system. there is no 3rd sex anywhere in reality. therefore, sex is binary. sex characteristics exist on a spectrum, but not sex itself. also, that suicide rate is complete bullshit
ALB, yeah, the ONS instead went with filling in sex, plus whether you’re transgender and, if so, your gender identity. what’s so mf crazy and gives up the whole charade is that so many people were still mad about this and are telling “trans women” to just put themselves as women, without the transgender designation. that’s so utterly mf backwards, cuz accurate numbers could give transgender clinics more funding. they’re more focused on arbitrary “validation” than accurate data.
P. Abelard, OMG that clip was great! XDDD also, if both of those blatant men decided to say they identify as women, they would then be considered pre-op trans women by the woke crowd and be considered a lesbian couple. no bullshit.
KAZ, there’s no way to take a neutral stance on accepting reality. you either do or don’t. these people think gender roles didn’t exist in indigenous societies before they were colonized. they think homo and heterosexuality is based on gender identity, which they can’t even prove exists. they think there are more than 2 sexes, even tho they can’t point out even a 3rd gamete. literally all their ideas are based on obfuscation.
Why shouldn’t sports be unisex? If they lost the machismo they might be of some interest. I welcome the breaking apart of the roles where that is concerned.
I liked the On The Buses episode where the clippies get one over on the men at a busmen’s football match.
Jordan, as socialists we are against prisons. People who cause harm in socialism will be restrained, but that doesn’t mean places of restraint would be ugly, dirty and dangerous.
well, old bhoy, i’m talking about gender specifically in regards to *socialism*.
personally, i’m quite happy to snog anything that moves (ideally slow moving as i’m very lazy). and i’ve always fancied wearing a dress and high heels (not got the legs though).
but my personal predilections have nothing to do with my politics. one makes suitable placatory noises and moves on to the real issues of class.
of course, a safe space for misogynists would be as welcome as a safe space for femmoids.
Socialist society should be a safe space for everyone. Even if there remain a few who would need to be restrained, that wouldn’t mean punished, even if they viewed being restrained as a punishment. Society wouldn’t have punishment.
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