The Tudor revolution
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So you are denying struggle between the bourgeoisie and the nobility?
How do you explain Europe’s peasantry siding with noble against bourgeois? (France) and with Tsar against Bolshevik worker (Russia).
Not to mention Marx’s contempt for peasantry and for Chinese “barbarism” and “superstition”, dismissing thus centuries of pre-capitalist civilisation.
“How do you explain Europe’s peasantry siding with noble against bourgeois? (France) and with Tsar against Bolshevik worker (Russia).”
Did they?
The French Jacquerie? (perhaps i am stretching the time-line a bit) Napoleon’s rural support?
The SR Party?
Or Makhno?
I will ask you tow read two books: The Civil war in France and the 18 Brumaire of Lois Bonaparte, and then come back for a refill
The peasantry in Russia was overwhelmingly conservative and Orthodox. The Makhnovist cossacks were an exception. Most cossacks were devoted to the Tsar.
In France I refer to the Revolution, not earlier periods.
Marcos, I know you are limited like a true politico, so never mind.
Apart from Marx, you keep quoting Bolshevik thugs, like Mao, Hoxha, etc.
Very dubious.
Re: Peasants, I’d invoke Hobsbawm, and the role of banditry as the basic mode of peasant revolt against their feudal lords (and and their replacement): the struggle between peasant and aristocrat was a struggle over moveable surplus, which cold be appropriated by either party.
Look at Chaucer (and also Langland): feudal ideology venerated the peasant and reviled the bourgeoisie (none of the middle class characters in Pilgrim’s Progress are sympathetic), and of course, the peasants would rise against usurers and lawyers as the hangers on and robbers associated with the great feudal magnates, while holding on to the idea of papa tsar (or local equivalents): “If only the King knew of the abuses”, etc.
In Martorell’s Tirant lo blanc the noble hero passing through a town hangs all the lawyers and bankers, to the great applause of the populace.
Marcos, I know you are limited like a true politico, so never mind.
Apart from Marx, you keep quoting Bolshevik thugs, like Mao, Hoxha, etc.
Very dubious.
Well if we are on a thread on Mao, and the Chinese revolution they have to be cited. They were Leninists, the only old Bolsheviks were Stalin and Trotsky. Like talking about the Russian revolution of 1917, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Bukharin, Martov, have to be mentioned
Another interesting fact:
France, 17th c., the bourgeoisie of regional towns side with local nobles against Richelieu’s centralised state-building on behalf of Louis XIII.
And the bishop and bourgeoisie of Lieges allying with Burgundy’s feudal lord against Louis XI, and consequently being massacred by the mercenary Schwarz Reiters of William de la Marck.
What’s the point of these titbits of information? The MCH does not argue that the objective members of a class all automatically behave in a way that conforms to the overall objective interests of that class. That would be crude economic determinism. An easy Aunt Sally to knock down.
It’s for the over-simplifiers like Marcos and Wez who accuse me of revisionism and of burying the class struggle.
‘It’s for the over-simplifiers like Marcos and Wez who accuse me of revisionism and of burying the class struggle.’
The strange thing about this debate is that I’ve encountered TMs arguments on many occasions but always from reactionaries who do indeed ‘wish to bury the class struggle’. Their constant refrain is ‘you’re over simplifying’. They use the same objection to the Marxist analysis of contemporary politics especially by referencing contemporary ‘bourgeois’ (excuse me for using this apparently loaded term) sociology and its seemingly infinite number of class distinctions. Someone once even accused dialectics as being ‘too simplistic’ – something that the writings of Hegel and Marx can never be accused of. So excuse me if I don’t take your insult to heart TM. Are you sure you’re not a CIA plant?
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