The Revolution Referendum
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I recall Cde. Watkins, (he can correct me if i am wrong) discussing majority and minority support for socialism on SPOPEN and his point was it was not an arithmetic issue of numbers, but a functional majority political power. I tend to agree and much of the party case also concursA 1955 EC Statement talks of "The overwhelming mass of the people will participate, or fall in line with, the process of reorganisation "[my emphasis]. "we use terms such as “majority” and “majoritarian” this is not because we are obsessed with counting the number of individual socialists, but to show that we reject minority action to try to establish socialism – majority as the opposite of minority….a majority (yes, but in the democratic rather than mere mathematical sense)…." http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/aug04/icc.htmlIt is about an effective majority, not simplistic formalism of number counting but a class struggle position It should be remembered that when the SPGB was formed, women did not yet possess the vote and many men did not qualify for the franchise. The Scottish independence referendum included 16 and 17 year olds while the EU excluded that section. It may be acknowledging that there is an already established world majority of socialists who have, to some extent, voted with their feet and re-organised their jobs, freely distributed food and goods, refused to go to war, or whatever. We won't just sit on our arses for someone to declare the success of the revolution from a referendum. Did the fall of the Communist Party governments of the Eastern Bloc no-one waited around for a massive vote of millions of people since the malaise of state capitalism was plainly evident , allowing individual revolts in each of the countries or individual Soviet republic. It is speculative but many revolutions of the past that have succeeded have, it is required no more than 25%-30% active support – which would be enough for an election of any capitalist party. If 20-30% of the population actively supporting the revolution outweighs active opposition sufficiently to achieve its goals, with the rest of our class either passively support us or just only keeping their heads down below the parapets to see what comes out of whatever crisis and comes to pass. That constitutes a sufficient majority of socialists.This book discussed the tipping point for changehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_PointRensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York published a paper with findings that that when 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, the majority of the society will eventually adopt it.i have seen figures as low as 3% as necessary
alanjjohnstone wrote:It is speculative but many revolutions of the past that have succeeded have, it is required no more than 25%-30% active support – which would be enough for an election of any capitalist party. If 20-30% of the population actively supporting the revolution outweighs active opposition sufficiently to achieve its goals, with the rest of our class either passively support us or just only keeping their heads down below the parapets to see what comes out of whatever crisis and comes to pass. That constitutes a sufficient majority of socialists.Perhaps, but those who are keeping their heads below the parapet may not understand the nature of the change and what is expected of them in the new society. That doesn't mean they are hostile to socialism as such.
TG: Next Thursday okay for you? However, this one is about Socialsim which is quite a different thing from socialism! Not sure what but something to do with simulation. I think we're pretending that we're not living as random atomised individuals in a mad consumerist devil-take-the-hindmost free-for-all which is all going to end in some hideous apocalyptic disaster. It would have to be pretend since there has been no such thing as society since 31 October 1987. The Thatcher woman abolished it. Incidentally, nobody noticed but they got the initials backward during the real referendum. The UK just voted to withdraw from the UE – United Earth. This could be a problem if the Vulcans decide to invade.
Bloody Vulcans, coming over here,taking our council house, claiming our benefits. There logic just doesn't fit into our society. I don't know why people don't see it. They refuse to integrate their logical, rationilist view of the world into our irrational, parochial world. Pointy eared bastards
Revolution represents rapid change, I have said many times online and offline on differing forums and to associates that revolutions, although sometimes needed (and sometimes agrivated by opportunists) are rapid, and change when forced like a revolutionary change leaves little room for correction, it can leave a resonant scar for years and years, We still feel the scars of the second world war, the French and Russian Revolution's brutality. A revolution is foolish, unless there is no other choice. On the other hand, a gradual, monitored and planned change would work better, we organise, remove the stigma around socialism, grow as a group and unite with others to form a sword and shield, the sword to smite the enemies of the people (not physically, more in the sense of removing corruption from goverment) and the shield to protect. Once we are strong enough, which together, nothing is impossible, imagine what we could do if funds going towards politicians were rerouted to medical, scientific and social research, our technology and understanding would skyrocket.
Yet they corrode into such. With people taking opportunity in wake of the ability to gain some form of power. Yes, there have been nonviolent revolutions, but, with the way the world is today, I cannot see one succeeding.
Szaviels: Socialism is not about "removing corruption from government". It's about removing the capitalist class. And the problem with capitalism is not "funds going towards politicians". It's about profits going to the capitalist class. We actually can't predict how the revolution – the change from capitalism to socialism – will take place, whether it will be violent and sudden or gradual and peaceful. One thing we can predict is that a referendum of the sort suggested here, will (like the recent Euro-Ref) change nothing.
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