The red flag and the colour red

[jondwhite]

The plain red flag used by workers in class struggle regularly during the 19th Century commonly acquired a yellow hammer and sickle and an altogether different connotation during the 20th Century thanks to Bolshevism. Is it time to reclaim the red flag and the colour red since we try to reclaim the words socialism and communism?

I'm not too bothered about the song, a Labour Party anthem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Flag) but the flag and colour may be worth claiming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_%28politics%29) now it is the 21st Century.

[alanjjohnstone]

The Starry Plough , flag of the Irish Citizens Army, was green and yellow. Connolly said the significance of the banner was that a free Ireland would control its own destiny from the plough to the stars.It later changed to blue in the 1930s nd bcame the flag of the Irish labour movement.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starry_Plough_(flag) The dark blue and white Southern Cross was the flag of the Eureka strikers in Australia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Flag The British Chartists had several flags but favoured the horizontal tricolour which was considered by the authorities as subversivehttp://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb_chart.html There is enough precedents not to get fixated over the colour red. Then there is the red starhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_star

[alanjjohnstone]

i just saw the Sept SS cover, the raised fist. Invariably this is the male fist not the dainty hand of a woman which reminds me of the blackadder scenehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EfW9znJYjw

[ALB]

jondwhite wrote:

I'm not too bothered about the song, a Labour Party anthem

It may have been used by the Labour Party for a while as its song, but it was written in 1889 by someone who was then a member of the SDF, Jim Connell. The reason why he chose to write a song about it was no doubt that it was the flag of the Paris Commune of 1871.As to the tune, it's the same as the Green xmas song O Tannenbaum. I remember once arriving at Munich airport in mid-December and they were playing this tune. It occurred to me for a moment (only a moment) that maybe the Munich Workers Council had been re-established.

[alanjjohnstone]

 Connell had wanted it sung to the tune of a pro-Jacobite anthem, "The White Cockade", a more cheery tune http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab1KBgrCq08

[ALB]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

i just saw the Sept SS cover, the raised fist. Invariably this is the male fist not the dainty hand of a woman

Well, whoever it is, man or woman, they're a south paw. Which presents a bit of a problem as in France (and Trotskyists here)  it's those in the Bolshevik tradition who raise the left hand in a clenched fist whenever the Internationale is sung while Social Democrats (an offshot of whom we are) raise the right hand.  Which is what I do, to show I'm not a Bolshevik (just as I eat meat on a Friday to show I'm not a Catholic). Mind you, in his recent biography of Marx, Jonathan Sperber says that Marx was left-handed….

[rodshaw]

Might be a bit tricky trying to claim red as our colour without a significant rebrand – the WSM logo and the SPGB caption accompanying it on this website are very, very blue.

[Anonymous]

rodshaw wrote:

Might be a bit tricky trying to claim red as our colour without a significant rebrand – the WSM logo and the SPGB caption accompanying it on this website are very, very blue.

Looking forward to the very, very blue logo and caption being ditched before long and the new shop front fascia displaying appreciable amounts of red and black… 

[ALB]

Is this what you've got in mind?

[Anonymous]

I love it; pity it's not in colour!  Vast improvement on the existing sign.  Shame the present shopfront's window area is not quite large enough to accommodate the banner as well…  and I don't mean the latest abortion.

[SocialistPunk]

I think I have seen an image of Head Office somewhere, but I can't recall it.How about a picture of the shop front as it is now, in colour, so folk like me who aint been down there can av a butchers?

[Anonymous]

SocialistPunk wrote:

I think I have seen an image of Head Office somewhere, but I can't recall it.How about a picture of the shop front as it is now, in colour, so folk like me who aint been down there can av a butchers?

 http://goo.gl/maps/7k9aMWait a few seconds for the image to load.

[SocialistPunk]

Thanks Gnome.I do think the current front could do with a makeover. I don't think it a good idea to go back to an SPGB emblazoned front though.

[alanjjohnstone]

Thats a very poor window display, sorry to say. If it hasn't improved since the following is my opinionated opinions. Surely we can afford some proper accessories and dress it up a bit better. If i recall correctly we got actual shop-fitters as members. A few books isn't enough.What happened to that thingy hooked up to pictures and a computer.What about some flashing led lights signs …i know they are down to a few pounds in cost for customised versions. They can be useful informing whats on at the HO. or just sloganising I can't see any of our promotional ware such as the cups displayed.I'm sure some members with Marx parphenalia such busts of him and Fred could *lend* them to the party as some donors do to museums just for them to be seen. Inside head office, what about a cabinet display of First Editions. Archives can provide a few but i'm sure the bibliophiles in the party can help out too. Take a lesson from capitalism…capitalise on every thing we got going for us and SELL ourselves by ADVERTISING ourselves. Draw the passing trade into HO or at least to stop and look and Clapham High St has a heavy pedestrian traffic rate. It is not overnight success as lit stall operators will tell you , but patience and perseverance bears fruit. Make ourselve a visible fixture on the street so that when passer-bys give strangers directions it is " Carry on til you pass the Socialist Party office and then turn a right" Make ourselves INTERESTING, take advantage of how UNIQUE we are.Will someone compile a  "10/(20) Things You Didn't Know About The SPGB" list for the blog please. DarrenO, you left-spotting anorak , where are you?As i said many times before, we have that bracket for hanging a sign to catch the eye, too, since we cannot agree about the colour of a flag hanging out from a flag-pole, make use of it. Every crafts fair has a stand where someone burns a house name into a piece of wood…simple and basic as that…no need for an ad-hoc sub-committee and EC approval. It is a daunting never ending task the premises committee has, like painting the Forth Rail Bridge but the advertising committee needn't restrict itelf to placing newspaper adverts and widen its activities.. Certain covers of the Standard IMHO could be blown up and turned into trendy framed wall posters for the Clapham student population. Some can be made into placards and handed out on demos.All these ideas don't involve huge sums, nor require hordes of volunteers, just a bit of temporary re-ordering of the priorities of those who are doing all the hard work anyways. Let a thousand flowers bloom is just the old fashion way of saying lets crowd-source ideas and suggestions. 

[ALB]

Here's a picture of what it used to look like till a couple of years ago:http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarflondondunc/540301763/The removal of the bricked wall (originally built at the time the Anti-Nazi League were fighting the National Front and the NF were retaliating against any organisation with "socialist" in its name) is a huge improvement. More passers-by venture inside. Personally, I don't see the need to waste any money changing anything else. The improvements have been made. Let's leave it at that.

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