December 10, 2011 at 9:57 am #86435AnonymousInactiveJ Surman wrote:Looks as if they being drawn into making suggestions as to how to run capitalism and are setting off down the reformist road
Absolutely, and here’s a podcast of the St Paul’s Institute Ethical Capitalism discussion, which several Occupy London supporters participated in and debates whether regulation can really deliver an ‘ethical’ capitalism:http://charitiesparliament.podbean.com/2011/12/07/ethical-capitalism/ December 11, 2011 at 1:05 am #86436
So the Occupy Lx find P2P capitalism “exciting and interesting” according to one of this economic committees member’s comments. What is P2P capitalism – its inspired by computer open-source initiiatives such as wilkipedia, “a new type of market entity which is community-supportive, mission-oriented, and uses profit-making (but not profit maximization) to sustain commons-based peer production”, a “prosumer capitalism”. and that “China’s growth is substantially based on the shanzai economy, which is a legal version of the open-source economy.” It will see “the state form, which has been essentially captured for the private interests of a predatory financial faction, and return to its more systemic role of maintaining a common good”Read Michel Bauwens hereSo now we know what some Occupiers mean by alternative economics and anti-capitalism.December 14, 2011 at 3:10 am #86437
Our blog in one of its commentaries on Occupy Wall St wrote :-“In advocating that we don’t need formal decision-making rules and structures Occupy Wall St are at risk of fostering a perilous illusion, perilous because it can permit people to being manipulated by some self-appointed vanguard. We insist that, on the contrary, “self-organisation” is only possible as democratic self-organisation, involving formal rules and structures, precisely to prevent the emergence of unaccountable elites.” We now witness the appearance of such groups as the Alternative Banking Group and the Occupy the SEC which unilaterally seek reforms to bank and finance legislation in the name of OWS. http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/ows-alternative-banking?December 14, 2011 at 3:25 am #86438
Another insight into OWS organising and decision making here http://www.thenation.com/article/165087/fracturing-occupy-wall-streetDecember 14, 2011 at 9:11 am #86439alanjjohnstone wrote:Another insight into OWS organising and decision making here http://www.thenation.com/article/165087/fracturing-occupy-wall-street
Having been to Occupy London a number of times now I think the same distinction between the political activists and homeless occupiers exists there though without the conflict.Here is a description of the situation in Oakland towards the end (not what I expected from some of the glamorised reports of it as a hot bed of working class resistance):Quote:Here are some points that someone who has not participated in an Occupy meeting won’t understand (and this is based on common trends in West Coast Occupy spaces — but comrades have said some apply to others elsewhere): 1.) the majority of those camping at the sites are people dismissively referred to as “chronic” homeless; many are veterans of wars, as far back as the one in Vietnam 2.) a significant part of the population at the encampments have serious mental health issues 3.) there is open and widespread use of marijuana and alcohol, as well as other drugs that are used more covertly All 3 factors are interrelated. Since I’ve still had beautiful interactions with people afflicted by all 3, I see Occupy sites as places of healing and for the possible reintegration of long-term homeless people into housed working class communities. I have seen people who in the past were noticeably mentally ill start to adjust and appear more stable after taking on collective duties in the safety of the encampments. Never having been anywhere near homeless myself, I can imagine that the safety in numbers must making sleeping outdoors seem much less dangerous. Yet these encampments, especially on the margins of Occupy Oakland where the guy got shot dead last week, have lumpen characters prowling around the fringes looking for some hustle or something to rip off. There’s this strange paradox of safety within the core and danger at the margins. I’ve seen a few fist fights myself, mostly between drunks, all of which got broken up due to the thankless efforts of stable people at the encampment. If you know the counter-cultural reference, you’ll get this description a friend made: Occupy camps are a cross between a Rainbow Gathering and jail. That pretty much sums it up.
I think the Occupy London political activists are going to have a similar issue to face when they end it (and go back to their homes) of what to do about the homeless people they have attracted and given a sense of community to.Perhaps we’ve concentrated too much on the political aspects of the Occupy movement and overlooked the social effect for some of those involved.December 18, 2011 at 6:40 pm #86440
Three of us braved temperatures of 3-4 degrees to complete the Party’s commitment to have a stall at Occupy St Pauls for the six weeks up till Xmas. We didn’t stay for long but still did the usual leafleting and had the usual discussions. Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn was announced as speaking somewhere but we couldn’t find him. We noticed that the the walls had been cleared of all their posters and that empty tents had been removed. An occupier explained that this had been done as a concession to the church authorities to help restore a sense of normality to the area. Pity really even if some of the posters were barking mad, eg those supporting David Icke, as well as all variety of conspiracy and currency crank theories. A couple of ours were up there too.The civil action by the City authorities to remove the camp is being heard tomorrow at the Royal Courts of Justice. Listen to the news to see what happens.December 18, 2011 at 6:43 pm #86441Socialist Party Head OfficeParticipant
Comment on the fate of Occupy Brighton on the Party’s blog here.December 21, 2011 at 7:00 am #86442
Perhaps we can organise a party discussion meeting , or a viewing of Kid’s Stuff and an accompanying talkAny other suggestions? The Bank of Ideas is situated on Sun Street, Hackney in an abandoned office block purchased several years ago by the bank UBS. It is an enormous space complete with a 500-seater lecture hall. We’re open to visitors and guests from 12 noon to 11 pm from Tuesday to Friday an from 10 am to 11 pm on Saturday and Sunday. http://www.bankofideas.org.uk/events/ List of events here http://www.bankofideas.org.uk/events/December 21, 2011 at 10:04 am #86443Socialist Party Head OfficeParticipant
Thanks. We’re on to it.December 21, 2011 at 10:23 am #86444AnonymousInactive
Check this out…..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gL4g3SMlC0&feature=youtu.beDecember 21, 2011 at 11:12 am #86445
I already did, but he seems to be advocating violence whereas I would have thought that non-violence would be a better tactic for the Occupy Movement. At one point he criticises those who say that the police are part of the 99%, but don’t we say “All Coppers are Workers” (even if some are also Bastards)?December 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm #86446AnonymousInactiveALB wrote:I already did, but he seems to be advocating violence whereas I would have thought that non-violence would be a better tactic for the Occupy Movement. At one point he criticises those who say that the police are part of the 99%, but don’t we say “All Coppers are Workers” (even if some are also Bastards)?
I wasn’t suggesting for one moment that we would agree with everything he (or indeed anyone else in the Oakland Occupy camp) was saying; simply that some useful points were being made such as “I’m not being interested in fighting for abstractions like justice, accountability or even peace, just as I’m not interested in reforming this disgusting system”.That’s more than you get from most of those taking part in the Occupy camps.December 31, 2011 at 10:15 am #86447
I don’t know who or which group is behind this statement (probably, as the anti-unionism in it suggests, some “left communists”) but it makes many of the points we would:Quote:Call-out meeting for anti-capitalist activists in the NYC metro area.As the year is ending, the Occupy movement can look back with pride. A lot was accomplished in just a few months time. Our protest has broken the silence on the pain that the system we live under inflicts on the vast majority of the population. It has shifted the debate. It has spread throughout the country and beyond. It has created a space in which all voices can express themselves, in which people talk to each other about their lives and relate it to what’s happening to society. It has protected and expanded this space with creative direct democracy-methods. It has seen itself in continuation of, and in solidarity with, the protest movements in Egypt, Greece, Spain and everywhere against a global system of injustice. And its essential slogan : « Occupy ! » gives a sense of direction to our movement : Let’s occupy our world, make it work for the needs of the 99% !To occupy our world, we must expropriate its current owners, dubbed the 1% but more appropriately described as « capital ». But not everyone in the Occupy movement agrees with this conclusion. So now that the movement enters a new phase, and everyone is talking about what the next step will be, it finds itself at a crossroads. We are all bound together by our outrage over the injustice this system inflicts but we draw different conclusions. Some think our aim must be to reform the system, to change the laws to protect politicians from the corrupting influence of money. Others like us think that, as long as the capitalist core of the system survives, it won’t matter how democratically politicians are elected, they will always be bound by higher laws, the laws of capital. Congress, the Democratic party and its trade union allies, the cops, the mayors, governors etc, are all integral parts of the soulless machine that structures society in the interests of capital. They can never represent the interests of the 99%.In 2012, the spectacle of the electoral circus will suck up a lot of media-attention and it threatens to suck up part of the Occupy movement as well. The challenge to those who refuse to be co-opted by the very forces against whose policies the movement has risen, who don’t want to become foot soldiers for progressive Democrats or the unions, is to pose an alternative perspective to the movement.How to concretize the battle cry « Occupy ! » ? How to resist the forces of co-optation ? How to reach out to the ‘99%’ in the workplaces, whose involvement is vital to our movement ? How will the deepening of capitalism’s crisis in the coming year increase the pressure and affect the spread of the Occupy movement ?These and other questions, the anti-capitalists in the Occupy movement need to discuss. We invite them to do so at an open meeting, on January 8thJanuary 8, 2012 6:00 PM – 8:00 PM The Commons 388 Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn (three blocks from the Atlantic Avenue Subway Stop)Issued by : a group of anti-capitalist activists. For more information, write to: firstname.lastname@example.orgJanuary 10, 2012 at 7:16 am #86448
What type of debate should the Occupy movement engage in?http://occupylsx.org/?p=2835Confirmed panel participants include:Labour life peer Lord Maurice GlasmanConservative MP for Wycombe Steve Baker who raised a private member’s bill last year on accounting standardsGordon Kerr, a whistle-blowing former banker who now heads up consultancy Cobden PartnersA representative from the RBS Shareholders GroupRepresentatives from Occupy London’s working groups.oops… a bit late for anyone who intended to attendJanuary 10, 2012 at 9:04 am #86449alanjjohnstone wrote:Confirmed panel participants include:Conservative MP for Wycombe Steve Baker who raised a private member’s bill last year on accounting standards
Not just that. He supports Austrian economics (ie Baron Von Mises), the Tea Party and Ron Paul. I think he wants to abolish the Bank of England. Which, I suppose, might appeal to some Occupiers.alanjjohnstone wrote:oops… a bit late for anyone who intended to attend
It may be Wednesday out East but it’s still Tuesday here.
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