Scottish Referendum
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You're a brave man, Alan. These Nats can be nasty:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/01/paul-mccartney-scottish-independence_n_5746322.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-entertainment&ir=UK+Entertainment
I noticed this slogan on a banner in a photograph on the website provided by Alan."The best way to predict your future, is to create it"I don't know much about the arguments each side of the campaign are using, but from this slogan I assume the SNP are offering more power to the Scottish people. Perhaps the SNP will seek out the views of people and base their decisions on what the people want rather than pandering to the whims of business. Perhaps Scotland will become a shinning light of true democracy. At the very least the nationalists offer rule by corrupt Scottish politicians instead of English ones.
Still rattling the cages but 'fraid it has veered of to replies to Karl Popper and science….thankfully not at the level or depths of you and Lbird so far.http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/08/31/yes-fife-in-the-sun/#comment-91909I tried to briefly explain how the referendum officially held to only 2 positions Yes or No and that the abstention/spoiled ballot paper although a legitimate tactic in elections and referendums was not recognised. I may require you to clarify the position better perhaps if that thread develops.
Here's the exchange we had with the Electoral Commission in Scotland about this.We wrote to the Electoral Commission on 14 January:
Quote:DeclarationWith regard to the Scottish Referendum of 18 September 2014 and with a view to being designated a “permitted participant” in it, the Socialist Party of Great Britain hereby declares that it will campaign for the outcome to be “Neither YES Nor NO” on the grounds that whether or not Scotland is an independent country is a non-issue for the majority as whether they are governed — and austerity imposed — from Edinburgh or London is irrelevant.and received the following email reply on 20 January:
Quote:As discussed if you want to register your party as a permitted participant in the referendum for independence in Scotland there is a range of information you have to give us. You can do this in two ways: * You can fill in the form that is available in our guidance and return it to us. You will find it here http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/word_doc/0006/164472/form-ris-ris1.doc The link to our whole set of guidance is http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/party-or-campaigner/campaigners-in-referendums * You can register using PEF online which I know you will be familiar with. As a registered party you should be able to do this using your party log in details. Link is here https://pefonline.electoralcommission.org.uk/Default.aspxIn your letter you declared for neither Yes or No. The legislation requires that a permitted participant identifies the outcome for which you are campaigning. In the referendum there are two outcomes Yes or No.We replied:
Quote:Are you saying that we can register as "No" and then campaign for "Neither Yes Nor No"?Over the phone they indicated that this was the case, but didn't put it in writing.We interpreted this to mean that we had to register either for "Yes" or "No" but could campaign for what we wanted (even for "Yes" if registered as "No" or vice versa).In the end we didn't proceed as you only needed to register if you were planning to sprend over £10,000 (as the CBI found out over their recent banquet) which we weren't.
As this email sent to Head Office yesterday shows, our comrades in Glasgow have been active:
Quote:My name is [x]. I live in Glasgow. I am not a member of the SPGB but, while walking about my hometown I've seen SPGB stickers that ask people to not vote yes or no in the Scottish referendum but to ask for World Socialism. I entirely agree with this sentiment however there are definitely not enough of these stickers, especially compared to the amount of yes and no stickers. I was wondering how I might go about getting some of these stickers to put up? Would it cost me? How many could I get? etc? Thank you for taking the time to read this email. Yours, in solidarity.Just spent a minute heckling Alex Salmond there on Buchanan St. Could hardly get near him for reporters and press people…it was like flies round shite. A flurry of Yes supporters were crowding around Salmond and Sturgeon so I just thought I would get my oar in. A Sun reporter came up to me and took my details and I explained my position to him then a guy from a Sky News mentioned that he'd like a short spot for the Sky News website. I spoke to camera for a few minutes but whether they will stick me on the website tonight or not is anyone's guess. Probably onto plums but I tried.
Switch-around…Latest poll….51% for independence, 49% against.Even if the No prevails in the end, i think a decade down the line there will be yet another referendum on the issue, perhaps even sooner, depending on events and circumstances.
Is Rule 25 applicable here? Would the break up of the UK – or Great Britain – constitute 'a matter of political or economical importance' ?
Good point Vin.It may also have an effect on whether the SPGB ends up having to adjust it's name. I was reading a few articles online that talked of the constitutional repercussions of Scottish independence. Such repercussions also include the name, the United Kingdom of Great Britain.The idea of the SPGB changing to World Socialist Party of Scotland and World Socialist Party of ………, may be forced onto the party. Funny how various issues overlap.
The 'yes' vote is certainly on the up but not sure if the party would need to change its name, tho'.
How so Vin?If the constitution of GB changed and a name change occurred, how would the SPGB defend clinging to an out dated identity?As the GB in SPGB is essentially a location identifier (albeit loaded with traditional baggage) with reference to the constitution or something along those lines, surely it is no big deal to change if necessary? If that came about it would make sense to seriously consider adopting the World Socialist Party identity along with the WSM majority.Ifs and buts at the moment. But there's nothing wrong with discussing it now, as it is a complicated issue, but then again I am not a party member and some in the party (I know you are not one Vin) think it has nothing to do with non members.
Don't panic. It's not going to happen. Anyway, if the trade unions representing a lower level of class consciousness are not going to break up into two "national" sections, why should we as a socialist party do so? A single organisation covering two states would be making a point in itself.
I'm not panicking Adam. I don't see a need for the Scottish branches to form a separate national section either. It certainly would be making a point if the UK, GB changed to something like plain old Britain, and the SPGB stuck doggedly to the Great Britain tag. That would look pretty damn old empire nationalistic.But it aint my party, as I've been reminded.
'Great Britain' is a geographical term for the largest Island in the British Isles. If Scotland goes 'independent', they'll simply be another country on the Island of Great Britain.The corresponding political entity, which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, is known as the 'United Kingdom'.If the party's name was 'The Socialist Party of the United Kingdom' there could conceivably be a case made for a change in name should succession by Scotland take place on September 18th. As that's not the case the question simply doesn't arise.
That is brilliant Gnome, but I already knew it.I'm referring to the possibility that GB reverts to some other name. In all likely hood GB will remain politically intact and even if it split the use of GB would likely stay. Who knows, time will tell.I'm merely knocking about ideas, not to be confused with advice.
ALB wrote:A single organisation covering two states would be making a point in itself.Again a nice idea. But I have to ask, if that's making a point, presumably regarding unity over singular nationalism, what kind of statement of identity and intent would The World Socialist Party of the British Isles make? I mean that covers England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and all the other islands. How's that for promoting socialist unity?
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