Russian Tensions
- This topic has 5,164 replies, 37 voices, and was last updated 4 hours, 40 minutes ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Bijou Drains
Participant
I think those who thought of Prigozhin and his soldiers as a replay of Lenin and the Bolsheviks or even Kornilov and the White Russians are a bit mistaken.If there is any precedent at all then it is Ernst Röhm and the brown shirts.
If I was Prigizhin and his mates I would keep an eye out for long knives (and also avoid drinking tea in restaurants)
————————————————————————————-As mercenaries the USA can hired them too
Mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who turned his Wagner Group fighters against the military leadership in Moscow, will move to Belarus and the criminal charges against him for mounting an armed rebellion will be dropped, the Kremlin said Saturday.
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko negotiated the deal with the Wagner Group chief, his office said, with the approval of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Lukashenko said he has known Prigozhin personally for 20 years.
The negotiations also guaranteed that Wagner fighters will not be prosecuted, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters. “We have always respected their heroic deeds at the front,” he said, adding that Moscow was grateful to Lukashenko for his role in de-escalating the crisis.
Those fighters who did not participate in the rebellion, Peskov said, would be offered contracts with the Defense Ministry, which has been seeking to bring all autonomous volunteer forces under its control by July 1.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/25/dmxa-j25.html
Failed coup in Russia
A coup attempt led by Evgeny Prigozhin, the chief of the Russian Wagner mercenary force, collapsed in the evening hours of Saturday, local time. In an agreement brokered by Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko, Prigozhin has left Russia, and the Russian Secret Service (FSB) has dropped the mutiny investigation initiated earlier in the day against the Wagner leader. There are unconfirmed reports that the deal includes the removal of Defense Minister Shoigu and the chairman of the chief-of-staff, Valery Gerasimov, and the relocation of Wagner to Africa.
Prigozhin started his coup on Friday evening, local time, with a 30-minute video in which he ranted against Russia’s military leadership and made a direct appeal to the pro-NATO faction within the Russian ruling class. Prigozhin, who only a few weeks ago called for a mass mobilization and a full turn to a war economy in order to combat the threat from NATO, now claimed, “The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with NATO.”
I don’t think this analysis by this Trotsky group stands up. I don’t think that Prigozhin was attempting to seize power or appealing to some “pro-NATO faction within the Russian ruling class”. (Who are they anyway? – I can’t see any section of the Russian ruling class being “pro-NATO” any more than there being a pro-Russia section of the US ruling class. Some might have thought the invasion of Ukraine unwise or a mistake and wanted to deal with the NATO threat to their state in a different way, but that’s not the sane thing.)
It seems more like a demonstration to win some concessions for his business (after all, he runs a profit-seeking company). If they had wanted to, those in control of the Russian state could easily have stopped a few tanks at any point on their way to Moscow. I would have thought, from their point of view, they handled it quite well, dealing with it without needing to use violence.
It was dramatic stuff in the short time it lasted but this “Prigozhin affair” risks being blown up out of all proportion like the 6 January riot in Washington in 2021. I can’t see it having any effect on the course of the war.
Social media is full of conspiracies. For example, that the USA paid Wagner six billion dollars to stage a coup but it was a hoax on the part of Putin and the head of Wagner. Also, the ‘retreat’ means that the Wagner group has now ensconced itself in Belarus closer to Kiev. Also, the Russians have allegedly stationed nuclear weapons in Belarus when everyone’s attention was taken up with the ‘coup’.
Causes of war; we knew the following but I thought it was worth noting even if it does come from the International Committee of the Fourth International:
“The war in Ukraine is also a battle for raw materials. The country has large deposits of iron, titanium and lithium, some of which are now controlled by Russia.” That’s what the federally owned German foreign trade agency Germany Trade and Invest (GTAI) reported on its website on January 16 under the title “Ukraine’s raw materials wealth at risk.”There are trillions at stake. According to the GTAI, “raw material deposits worth $12.4 trillion” remain beyond the control of the Ukrainian army, “including 41 coal mines, 27 gas deposits, 9 oil fields and 6 iron ore deposits.” Ukraine has not only coal, gas, oil and wheat but also rare earths and metals—especially lithium, which has been called the “white gold” of the transition to new energy and transportation technologies. The country accounts for around one-third of Europe’s explored lithium deposits.
Only the ignorant could believe that this is irrelevant to NATO’s war aims. It would be the first major war in over 100 years that is not about mineral resources, markets and geostrategic interests. The World Socialist Web Site has pointed out in previous articles that deposits of critical raw materials in Russia and China, which are essential to the transition to electric mobility and renewable energy, are an important factor in the war calculus of NATO states.”I do not support it either but I wanted to show that during the time of war many conspiracy theory appears in the internet, now the new theory is that Israel paid to the Wagner group to start a coup, but other theory are saying that Ukraine is controlled by Nazis, and other saying that is controlled by zionists
MS, that’s a theory that hasn’t shown up at all on my social media timeline. I’m familiar with the one about the Azov battalions and the thrall in which Stefan Bandera is held, although according to Wiki that would seem to be more in Western Ukraine than in the whole of the country.
Not a conspiracist but I can’t but help feel this whole thing is like an iceberg. No titanic reference intended. we only see what the media and states on both sides want us to see but there’s so much more hidden under the surface.
As this conflict/war has gone on I’ve pondered on why so much money, resources, effort has, and is, being directed at Russia.
Usual disclaimer of course. My conclusion, probably an erroneous one, is to apply Occam’s Razor. The western bloc of capitalist states see this as an ideal opportunity to eliminate a another global capitalist state with rich pickings at the end of it if successful.
A simplistic view to take so it’s back to the iceberg.
Whatever one thinks let’s not forget the awful human cost which has been, and which is being paid by thousands. Which is historically responsible for the most deaths and misery, religion or capitalism?davecoggan
Participant
MS, that’s a theory that hasn’t shown up at all on my social media timeline.——————————————————————————————————-
That theory has appeared within the latin America leftist, specially the Castroists and the follower of Chavezism. They support the government of Iran. It is a Gumbo soup. I am participating in several platforms in the internet, there is a wide world out there
“It was dramatic stuff in the short time it lasted but this “Prigozhin affair” risks being blown up out of all proportion like the 6 January riot in Washington in 2021. I can’t see it having any effect on the course of the war.”
I think a likely outcome of this is that Wagner will be Bach soon.
Not content with turning against the Russian-speaking minority, the Ukrainian nationalists now want to deal with the Hungarian-speaking minority. And we’re supposed to support the Ukraine regime to uphold “democratic values”.
” Which is historically responsible for the most deaths and misery, religion or capitalism?”
***
Capitalism, obviously. In countries where religion is still strong, it is adopted and exploited by nationalism for capitalist ends. Nationalism (also called patriotism, there is no difference) is in fact the strongest “religion” of today, and the most dangerous. The violent sectarian aspects of religion are harnessed by states and state-sponsored movements in the less secularised parts of the globe as allies of nationalism. Religious pacifists are drowned out, and even sometimes killed.
Past attitudes, as remnants of old superstructures, still linger in countries such as Ukraine, and these are also exploited (like Luther’s hatred of Jews fuelling Nazism), and Ukraine has a bloody legacy from these too – being one of the old buffer states between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. (The Uniate churches being Catholic in Orthodox guise).
The Crimean Tatars are also victims today of a lingering legacy.Biden says Putin is losing the “war in Iraq” in latest blunder
“President Joe Biden spoke to reporters in Washington, DC on June 28, saying that Russian president Vladimir Putin was “losing the war in Iraq” in a bizarre verbal slip-up referring to the recent mutiny of mercenary outfit Wagner”
No doubt this slip-up will be put down to Biden´s ailing cognitive faculties (in the same way the MSN media like to focus on trivia like Putin´s supposed health issues). But the wider issue of who is really losing this stupid senseless war – the workers on both sides – will be ignored.
“Putin” or the Russian capitalist state is not losing the war even though it is not likely to make much headway either. I think it is becoming pretty obvious that the much-vaunted Ukrainian counter-offensive is not going to go anywhere. I don’t imagine there will be much change in the location of the frontline one year from now though I could be wrong.
Hopefully at some point before then exhaustion will set in and peace talks can begin. I can’t see how it makes much sense for either side to continue with this slaughter indefinitely
Another document for the dossier being built up against Greta Thunberg for taking sides in a war:
Zelenskyy meets Greta Thunberg in Kyiv to address the war’s effect on ecology
She is now completely discredited and has turned into a common or garden politician.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.