Russian Tensions
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TW – Still no sign of an explanation of your understanding of materialism or an explanation of how the nationalised companies I listed were created by (your words) the struggles of actual socialists.
Is it reasonable to assume that you haven’t got any?
“It seems as if you reject the concept that there can exist a capitalist mode of production without the capitalist class, where a party bureaucracy can substitute for private owners and collectively own and control the means of production.”
That is how idealogues posing as socialists describe actually existing socialist societies. They should be ignored.
“It also appears that you believe that there is a transitional society called a ‘workers state’ that is non-exploitative and acts in the interests of working people, sometimes labelled ‘socialism’ or a ‘people’s democracy’, which is not capitalism but not yet communism.”
Yes. Because socialism does not erupt spontaneously and cannot defend its gains against violent reaction otherwise. Only an idealogue and false socialist would believe otherwise.
“I refer you to our Party tweet that Fox News reported.”
And I refer to your “party’s” record of dismal failure.
TS – “China is run by Marxists…”
I won’t refer to anything we have written but from someone who once believed China was on the path to ‘socialism’ (which we never have)
“It’s Not Socialism”: China is a Capitalist Cheap Labour Economy, Based on Exceedingly Low Wages
“…starting in the early 1980s, China has become a full fledged capitalist country…”
“…While China currently plays an important and positive balancing role on the geopolitical chessboard, it is not a “socialist” Nation State…”
“…It is important that people on the Left who describe China as a socialist country take cognizance of the oppressive nature of China’s cheap labour export economy…”
“…China is not a socialist country. Quite the opposite. It is a low wage economy…”
“…The interests of powerful Chinese business groups … are represented at the highest levels of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) leadership…”
“…The Socialist Mainstream has casually dismissed to even acknowledge the facts pertaining to land concentration, ownership and the rise of social inequality and the development of buoyant luxury goods sector for a small privileged social minority…”
Still waiting for TW to explain materialism and how US nationalisation was somehow “created by real Socialists”.
I do wish he would, we could all do with a good laugh to cheer us up.
Perhaps TW could give us his view of Marx’s “The German Ideology”.
That would be well worth a giggle
Socialism or barbarity… that we can agree.
An improvement of sorts.
The prediction of use of nuclear weapons made my heart thud!
This is a localised oligarchic division for the competing interests of a small and powerful social group… I believe that nuclear options work against their interests, seizing the market, and not blowing it all up!
I admire your dislike and hope that it never eventuates into nuclear options
“Out of an army half a million strong, that’s a spit in the Ocean”
Ukraine’s military has around that many members true but most of those are pencil pushers, truck drivers, mechanics, etc. Actual frontline troops is barely a fraction of that. Ukrainian losses are catastrophic and getting worse. I’m hearing a kill ratio of 15:1.
“again, look at the precedents, the Iran Iraq War, the Korean War: humans are sadly replaceable.”
Apples and oranges. The world of war is very different today.
“Yes, the precedents of prolonged attritional trench war is that one side will break in the rear, after horrific carnage, but that might not come soon.”
The Ukrainians are in the trenches not the Russians. (Though they have built solid defensive lines in rear areas). The Russians batter them with rockets and artillery til they’re shattered then move in with tanks and infantry, rinse and repeat. Almost all ground being taken is by Russia. The two big Ukrainian offensives were total disasters and though they took some territory it was a result of withdrawal not defeat and Russian casualties were light.
“And, don’t forget, Kyiv is basically pawning its future here into economic dependence on Europe, it will get the logistical supplies it needs not to break like that.”
Rubbish. NATO resolve is already crumbling and weapons shipments down to a paltry , photo-op dribble.
“If it’s a fair fight then both sides weary. This is not a fair fight.
There are still costs, even if unevenly distributed. Russia has, on paper, far more military resources, but it has to keep a lot in reserve to protect it’s own territory. It’s supply lines are in a hostile environment, and need to be protected.
Materiel can be replaced, simple destruction is inefficient, NATO has deeper pockets than Moscow.”
Doesn’t matter. Russia has been preparing for this conflict for years and has the infrastructure and supply chains in place to keep this war going til the end. NATO doesn’t. It’ll take several years to a decade to create the industries at scale. Ukraine has about one.
“Cutting the Polish border would also need to cut the Romanian and Moldovan borders: which would be come with severe supply line problems, and would just open the Russians to be being bled by guerrilla warfare.”
Which is probably why they won’t do it. My point was, they could.
“I’ll just note that Bakhmut has not yet fallen”
It’s literally days away now. Even the MSM can deny it no longer.
“a town with about the population of Redcar (not a huge city) has taken this long to fall”
The civilian population size is irrelevant. The Ukrainians spent 8 years turning it into a fortress and funneled huge numbers of personnel into the area. Some 10,000 are currently almost surrounded. Ukraine’s army, thanks to NATO, is the most powerful in Europe. Russia has already destroyed two iterations of it and is now working on the third. Sands through the hour glass. Ukraine’s loss is inevitable.
A year on from the initial invasion and TS still hails the success of Putin’s army, that has been reduced to the use of convicts to fight in the front lines.
One year from now, TS will be still parroting the Kremlin’s propaganda that the 2024 offensive will be the decisive breakthrough.
Once again, to remind TS, none of Putin’s supposed war aims have been achieved, no matter how much TS tries to sugar it.
There are those of us here who seek an immediate ceasefire even if it means the price of peace is giving up territory.
It matters little to us if Putin is ‘rewarded’ with the territory his army presently occupies, the Crimea and parts of the Donbas.
TW- “Ukrainian losses are catastrophic and getting worse. I’m hearing a kill ratio of 15:1.”
That’s right. You heard it here first folks, TW is getting direct updates from the front line!
He only stops by our forum when he has a moment, mainly he’s busy liaising with the top people in Putin’s team. We should be honoured that such an important figure is honouring is with his presence!
No wonder he can’t outline the basic concepts of materialism, he’s got his nose to the grindstone directing the Russian military!
😂😂😂😂😂“A year on from the initial invasion and TS still hails the success of Putin’s army, that has been reduced to the use of convicts to fight in the front lines.”
Erm, and the 300,000 newly mobilised plus 180,000 new volunteers? All convicts are they? You are an ideologue All-in, not a materialist. Evidence, out the window. You’re a direct mouth piece for Ukrainian intelligence now.
“One year from now, TS will be still parroting the Kremlin’s propaganda that the 2024 offensive will be the decisive breakthrough.”
Let’s bet on it then. Loser donates 100 pounds to a charity of their choice.
“Once again, to remind TS, none of Putin’s supposed war aims have been achieved”
Liberation of Donbass by August (if Scott Ritter is to be believed), demilitarization and denazification proceeding at speed. It takes a long time to wipe out Europe’s largest military.
“no matter how much TS tries to sugar it.”
I’ve never sugar coated anything. I’m just reporting the facts as I see them.
“There are those of us here who seek an immediate ceasefire even if it means the price of peace is giving up territory.”
Sure but the Nazis and their NATOstani handlers aren’t among them.
“It matters little to us if Putin is ‘rewarded’ with the territory his army presently occupies, the Crimea and parts of the Donbas.”
That’s because you’re safely tucked away in Britain free of the constant fear of Nazi shelling. The Russian speaking people of formerly eastern Ukraine feel differently.
“I always thought Russia was in Europe.”
As much as Turkey is. Turkey Europe too? Kamchatka also Europe? The Europeans certainly don’t consider Russia part of Europe. No invitation to join the EU or NATO. You’re
a Clown. But not funny. Except in the head. Lol“Socialism or barbarity… that we can agree.
An improvement of sorts.”
It’s an undeniable fact.
“The prediction of use of nuclear weapons made my heart thud!
This is a localised oligarchic division for the competing interests of a small and powerful social group… I believe that nuclear options work against their interests, seizing the market, and not blowing it all up!”
I disagree with your framing but agree most oligarchs want to preserve their wealth and don’t wish it, along with themselves, vaporised by the heat of a thousand suns. Thus the likes of Elon Musk are calling for peace. Problem is, there is a powerful group of neo-con ideologues running US foreign policy. They are delusional fanatics. The fate of the world is literally in the hands of a small group of delusional fanatics who believe Russia is just one step up the escalation ladder from complete defeat. But Russia is not. Russia is winning.
“I admire your dislike and hope that it never eventuates into nuclear.”
It’s up to the people of Europe to start putting their bodies in front of weapons shipments. If they’re serious about avoiding a nuclear war this is a good place to start.
Perhaps more ‘anti-war’ is the American right-wing libertarians that have increased their influence within the Republican Party, advocating a non-intervention isolationist foreign policy.
Wars launched by the government seem a complete waste of taxpayer money to the individual capitalist. Unless, of course, they themselves benefit from the government contracts.
Their reasoning is that free-market capitalism naturally leads to a world of personal freedom and economic prosperity, but this is thwarted by the power of the State. The power of the State grows at times of war therefore, war must be opposed as a way to drive back the power of the State.
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