Russian Tensions
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Nikolai Bukharin was rehabilitated by the Soviet leaders after he was executed by Joseph Stalin. Most Leninist have never read the works of Bukharin, and they do not know he was the aptest of the Bolsheviks and Lenin borrowed several conceptions from him. He knew the real definition of Socialism
“So TN was it correct for Stalin to put Solzhenitsyn in the Gulag”
Lol. Stalin didn’t. You think Stalin personally oversaw the arrest and trial of every criminal in the Soviet Union?
Solzhenitsyn was a panic monger at a time of existential war against a genocidal enemy. He was given a trial. He was found guilty. His treatment at the labour camp was humane.
“or was Putin right to say that his treatment was “evil”.”
Putin was wrong.
“Is your contention that Putin’s government is a continuation of the Bolshevik tradition”
Lol. I’m reminded of the quip, “There’s no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people.” I think this applies to you Robotomy.
“or is Putin’s view that Lenin was a great disaster for the Russian people correct.”
No, Putin was incorrect.
“Is the elevation of the the Russian Orthodox Chuch the correct path or was the abolition of the Orthodox Church by the Bolsheviks the way forward.”
Superstition should be undermined wherever and whenever possible but it must be done cautiously and with patience to avoid unnecessary backlash.
“Final question for TN, do you know your arse from your elbow?”
Child, the road is over there. Go play on it.
TS – “You think Stalin personally oversaw the arrest and trial of every criminal in the Soviet Union?”
Where is the evidence that Hitler actually ordered the Final Solution?
He, too, did not personally oversee the death camps.
This German historian does not deny the Holocaust but argues it was not planned by Hitler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Mommsen
I suggest your reply does not explain dictators and how they direct and control a country.
WHO predicts that up to three million Ukrainians could leave their homes in search of warmth and safety
“Half of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure is either damaged or destroyed. This is already having knock-on effects on the health system and on people’s health,” said Hans Henri P Kluge, WHO regional director for Europe. “This winter will be about survival,” he warned.
I am minded of the bombing of German cities and the mass deaths of civilians being justified because the cities were also military targets, armament factories or important railway junctions. I think TS has also justified the Russian destruction of Ukraine’s infrastructure for similar reasons.
“TS – “You think Stalin personally oversaw the arrest and trial of every criminal in the Soviet Union?”
Where is the evidence that Hitler actually ordered the Final Solution?”
What a purposely unctuous way of framing the question. The gulags were not death camps they were labour camps. The final solution used concentration camps to implement genocide. Soviet labour camps were just that. Labour camps for common criminals.
We both know Hitler didn’t put his name to the final
Solution but plenty of leading Nazis did.“He, too, did not personally oversee the death camps.”
I see what you did there. Soviet camps were not “death camps”. Your framing is disingenuous.
“This German historian does not deny the Holocaust but argues it was not planned by Hitler.”
Micromanaged, sure. But Hitler was its driving force. Without him there would have been no holocaust.
“I suggest your reply does not explain dictators and how they direct and control a country.”
I suggest you are a dishonest interlocutor who unctuously misframes questions to distort historical facts.
I made an analogy that challenged your belief that Stalin was not responsible for the gulags, that is all. Creating straw-man arguments are deflections from my point.
“But Hitler was its driving force. Without him there would have been no holocaust.”
“But Stalin was its driving force. Without him there would have been no purges.”
There is actually more evidence that Stalin was culpable of war crimes in that Stalin did put his signature to a directive instructing the killing of Polish officers.
You and Furr may dispute it by many scholarly and more reliable historians have verified his signature.
Dmitri Medvedev described the publication as a “duty”. “Let people see it, let them know who made the decision to kill the Polish officers. It’s all there in the documents. All signatures are there, all the faces are known.”
If you wish to consider Medvedev a Russian traitor, then Putin must also be, as he and Putin have been close political allies.
But to pre-empt a possible distraction. Hitler did sign the order to execute commandos which was a war crime
“I made an analogy that challenged your belief that Stalin was not responsible for the gulags, that is all.”
BS. You deliberately conflated the USSR with Nazi Germany as though they were equally as bad.
“Creating straw-man arguments are deflections from my point.”
I merely pointed out what you did. No need to straw-man.
“But Stalin was its driving force. Without him there would have been no purges.”
What?! Solzhenitsyn wasn’t purged! But anyways, Stalin was not a dictator. He was one member of the Politburo. Decisions were made collectively and Stalin was often overruled. Even the CIA has been forced to admit the fact.
That time the CIA admitted Stalin wasn't a "dictator." Classic. pic.twitter.com/CNKipM8jBk
— Matthew (@MatthewJohn666) June 22, 2021
“There is actually more evidence that Stalin was culpable of war crimes in that Stalin did put his signature to a directive instructing the killing of Polish officers.”
More BS proven so by Grover Furr.
“You and Furr may dispute it by many scholarly and more reliable historians have verified his signature.”
Bandwagon fallacy. “Reliable”? According to whom? You? Appeal to authority fallacy.
“Dmitri Medvedev described the publication as a “duty”. “Let people see it, let them know who made the decision to kill the Polish officers. It’s all there in the documents. All signatures are there, all the faces are known.””
And is he a historian? No. Appeal to authority fallacy.
“If you wish to consider Medvedev a Russian traitor, then Putin must also be, as he and Putin have been close political allies.”
He is wrong about an historical fact. If you find that traitorous well that’s on you.
Solzhenitsyn was sent to the Labour camp for criticising Stalin and suggesting a change in government. You say that was appropriate as it was a time of emergency and the USSR was at war.
By that logic the British voters who ousted Churchill should have been put in a Labour camp.
You say that Stalin was not culpable.
If the verdicts of the show trials were correct, then he appointed to power a myriad of Trotskyists, pro capitalist agents and later fascist spies.
Stalin directly appointed into positions of power the following:Yehzov
Yagoda
Bukharin
Rykov
Antipov
Syrtsov
SulimovTo name just a few there were hundreds of direct Stalin appointees who were arrested and killed during the Great Purge.
If the verdicts were correct, Stalin’s complete lack of judgement on who to promote, appoint and support, must make Stalin the biggest threat to the Soviet system.
Stalin’s history is littered with people he had appointed and were described glowingly by Stalin (we have contemporary reports from the CPGB saying this in our archives). These same appointees ended up with death sentences for various forms of treachery.
Your Putin, TS, has in fact made The Gulag Archipelago required reading for colleges. He is not the admirer of Stalin that you are.
I think some people in this thread should try staying away from bridges.
Anyway: According to TASS Russia’s economy is shrinking by 3% this year.
And, it seems they are signalling that they don’t want to depose Zelensky(according to RT. So much for removing ‘Nazis’.
But, they are projecting 3 million more Ukrainian refugees plus increased illness from home burning. So, the regime is protected, it is the workers who are made to suffer.
But, this is all in a good cause, film director Andrey Konchalovsky says “”I think that Russia’s mission is to preserve European culture, and not let it die. Russia is not only an inheritor of Europe’s great culture, but, maybe, today it is its only and main champion,” he said in a video address to the participants of a roundtable meeting at the Russian State Duma (lower parliament house) dedicated to the establishment of the public movement Russia’s Cultural Front.”(according to Tass. I think we can concur with Gandhi that European civilisation would be a good idea.
Even Grover Furr admits that mass deaths and repression occurred during the years of the great purge.
“The repression unleashed in July 1937 had mown down nearly 750,000 men, women and children by the end of 1938.” Furr however claims: ‘Yezhov’s own confessions prove that Stalin and the Soviet leadership were not responsible for his mass executions’ (p. 107 Yezhov v Stalin by Grover Furr).
Of course Yehzov “admitted” that he had been a “German Agent” since 1932 and that all of the deaths were part of a plot to destabilise the USSR.
This begs the question, if Stalin didn’t know about purges and that the USSR was a well developed democracy, why then did no one think to mention to Stalin that 3/4 million people had disappeared and been shot?
It also begs the question why did Stalin not order a big investigation into this “German Plot” rather than the action he actually took, discreetly having Yehzov shot immediately after his trial without any major publicity.
A cynic might think that Stalin might have got Yehzov to do his dirty work and then had him disposed of alongside evidence of Stalin’s culpability.
An even bigger cynic might think that Stalin didn’t carry out an investigation into the “German Plot” because Stalin and his chums were knee deep in collusion with the Nazis! Remember in 23 June 1939, Hitler and Stalin had signed a ten-year non-aggression pact with a secret protocol for partitioning Poland.
If anyone thinks that Grover Furr (specialist subject Medieval English Literature) is a credible author, reading his books will be enough to change your mind.
“Your Putin”
“My Putin”? Lol. Yeah, I keep him on my bedside dresser. Where do you keep yours?
“has in fact made The Gulag Archipelago required reading for colleges.”
Nothing wrong with studying fiction in schools.
“He is not the admirer of Stalin that you are.”
And I should give a shit why?
“Even Grover Furr admits that mass deaths and repression occurred during the years of the great purge.”
The thread’s about the Russia/Ukraine conflict. I know you have the attention span of a dim goldfish but do try and stay on topic.
This is moderately interesting: China is buying Russia’s gold in significant amounts – I wouldn’t be surprised if China was getting a good deal on gold here. I knew Russia had stockpiled gold before the war kicked off, which left it relatively secure after santions, and still able to make some trades, these sales could be a cash life-line for Russia.
“Central banks bought a net 399.3 tonnes of gold in the July-September period, more than quadrupling on the year, according to the November report by industry group the World Gold Council. The latest amount marks a steep jump from 186 tonnes in the preceding quarter and 87.7 tonnes in the first quarter, while the year-to-date total alone surpasses any full year since 1967.”
Other counties are moving to gold to also avoid paper currency restraints and dollar dependency. Russia is, apparently, also a gold producer, which will give it continued leverage in the war.
“The thread’s about the Russia/Ukraine conflict. I know you have the attention span of a dim goldfish but do try and stay on topic.”
Again TS avoids our points.
… And at the expense of goldfish, who are not as dim as he is, if at all. You can’t apply idiotic comparisons to vastly different animal species.
Back to the thread, TS: YOU have idolised Stalin here and whitewashed his violence. NOT exactly on thread yourself!
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