Russian Tensions
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As I said Robbo, “We are no military strategists.”
Others here think differently.
“I try to avoid commenting on the war until I’ve listened to analysis from those with military expertise or who have analysed what such people say. And, having done so, it seems clear that this was an orderly Russian retreat ”
The “retreat” from Kherson , an admission in itself, has not been completed despite TS using past tense.
But one must wonder if it was the original plan as the evacuation of tens of thousands of its inhabitants indicates that a battle for the city was envisaged (already I anticipate TS explanation – the removal was to safeguard them from Ukrainian revenge).
To be objective you have to study ALL aspects even the enemy. TS takes one side’s interpretation as the only one, dismisses the enemy’s understanding as propaganda and fails to take into account that his favoured side is using propaganda too.
TS took no notice of my own important caveat, “for whatever the reason”.
Not pursuing the capture of Kiev was a miscalculation as future events showed.
Russian over-confidence was demonstrated by all the media footage of the first weeks the long supply lines snaking along Ukraine’s main highways for all to see and to target.
Taking face-saving explanations at face-value is not analysis.
“The Russian troops outside Kiev were there to pin down Ukrainian soldiers stationed there in order to prevent them reinforcing the east.”
Check the time-line. The battle for Kiev was over by end of March. The battle for Donbas did not begin until middle of April.
They were not simultaneous and your explanation that it stopped reinforcement does not hold.
Also, it contradicts your earlier claim that Ukraine had massed 125,000 troops on its eastern flank to invade the separatist republics. Where are the reports of those being re-deployed to Kiev?
The swift advance of Russian forces would have succeeded if not for the rapid re-arming of Ukraine by its allies.
As for the peace talks, did the Russians choose to negotiate from a position of strength ie occupying even parts of the capital or negotiate from weakness, being seen to have lost an important battle?
MODERATOR NOTICE
I have deleted a post from True Scotsman as he failed to appreciate my distinction between a pun on a poster screen-name and a needlessly insulting pun on it.
MODERATOR NOTICE
I permitted your pun for robbo – Robotomy as fair comment from your perspective.
But arising from your query I found the repetition of another pun from BD that I had deleted and now that post is also deleted
Regards your question
12. Moderators may move, remove, or lock any threads or posts which they deem to be off-topic or in violation of the rules. Because posts and threads can be deleted without advance notice, it is your responsibility to make copies of threads and posts which are important to you.
Some may think I am being over-officious but I am trying to minimise the risk of this thread degenerating into meaningless name-calling.
This thread is becoming a Kindergarten, and it has lost its objectives, and its seriouness
If we are not serious peoples, what are you looking for in this forum ? This party has been a serious organization for more than 118 years, you do not know its history, and the history of its member, therefore, you are just an amateur. You do not asume any serious position, and you try to evade responsibility on any serious issues, even more, this is the only democratic place that will accept all your diatribes, in other place you would have been kicked out, and the prior moderator would have blocked you, or he had blocked this thread
MODERATOR NOTICE
“Bojo’s Brain”
Did I remove it? No.
Do I consider it insulting either to the poster it is intended for or to others who may visit this forum? No.
14. Rule enforcement is the responsibility of the moderators, not of the contributors. If you believe a post or private message violates a rule, report it to the moderators. Do not take it upon yourself to chastise others for perceived violations of the rules.
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This thread continues because True Scotsman represents a particular viewpoint that exists and is propagated.
It is up to individual forum members to judge whether what he posts is worthy of a reply. Some have already taken up the position to not interact with him.
“If we are not serious peoples, what are you looking for in this forum ?”
I’ve already stated my purpose. To demonstrate to any newcomers that you are not socialists but reactionaries.
“This party has been a serious organization for more than 118 years”
No, it has never been serious. That’s why there are only a half dozen of you.
“you do not know its history, and the history of its member, therefore, you are just an amateur.”
I don’t need to know your history only your views now. And they are reactionary.
“You do not asume any serious position”
I have a serious position. Actually existing socialist governments and their allies deserve the support of socialists everywhere.
“you try to evade responsibility on any serious issues”
No, I don’t. I’ve answered all questions put to me relevant to this thread topic. You, on the other hand, have not. What’s your source for Russia not accepting foreign students’ university degrees?
“even more, this is the only democratic place that will accept all your diatribes”
You asked to have me banned so go jump in a lake.
“in other place you would have been kicked out, and the prior moderator would have blocked you, or he had blocked this thread”
It sounds like you want All-in with the CIA to block me. That’s on him. Until he does so I’ll keep embarrassing you clowns.
If we are reactionary, Marx and Engels are also reactionary because we hold the same view of Marx and Engels, the problem is that you do not know the body of ideas of them as it has been demonstrated right here including the basic one as the Communist Manifesto, and the 1844 manuscripts
“If we are reactionary, Marx and Engels are also reactionary because we hold the same view of Marx and Engels”
Rubbish. You use Marxism to argue against actually existing Marxist societies. You are reactionaries.
“You use Marxism to argue against actually existing Marxist societies.”
From my knowledge of the left, you go further than others who describe “actually existing socialism” in their writings.
You are the first I have read to call them “existing Marxist societies” which means they must exhibit certain similar features of what Marx advocated and envisaged future society would be like.
Care to enlighten us on your sources from Marx and what those “Marxist societies” happen to be.
Wrong, there is not such thing as Marxist societies either, it was said by Marx himself that he was not a Marxist, and Engels himself said that socialism was a product of the working class, on his book on Scientific socialism. Without Marx and Engels socialism socialism would have existed, without them we have created our own concept of socialism/communism. Just in one sentence it has been proven that you do not know the most basic ideas of socialism, and you do not know the foundation of the socialist party. In a socialist society we would not need the conception of Marx and Engels. You have to get some feathers and wings before you can fly, you are still an amateur, and it takes years to go through the whole index of the socialist party
Robotomy, I try to avoid commenting on the war until I’ve listened to analysis from those with military expertise or who have analysed what such people say. And, having done so, it seems clear that this was an orderly Russian retreat with no loss of life. Therefore, merely a tactical setback in one section of a hugely sprawling battlefield. The Russians have had plenty of them but the overall picture has always remained the same. They’re winning decisively.
__________________________________________________________True Stalinist
So a tactical retreat means “winning decisively”. LOL, And, by the way, it’s not just in one “section of a hugely sprawling battlefield” the Russian military is retreating with a huge loss of life. The same thing happened in the North too. It seems that the authoritarian capitalist regime of Ukraine is gaining ground over the authoritarian capitalist regime of Russia that you support. If I had to guess, the probable outcome is going to be a stalemate with no side winning decisively
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