Lenin and Marx Contrasted
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LBird wrote:You really, really don't understand any of this, do you, YMS? This is Engels' 'Materialism', 'that day' and every day, and is nothing whatsoever to do with Marx's ideas about 'social production'.
So, according to you, if the majority of humans, at any point in history had just wanted communism, they could have had it?The quote I used was an adjunct to this section:
Quote:Question 6: How do you wish to prepare the way for your community of property?Answer: By enlightening and uniting the proletariat.I eman, what you are arguing for is Lenin's position, that by force of will alone humanity can reach communism. Why do you support Stalin so?
Young Master Smeet wrote:Quote:Question 6: How do you wish to prepare the way for your community of property?Answer: By enlightening and uniting the proletariat.You still don't seem to have got the hang of Marx, and Engels' mistakes, YMS.The 'answer', for Marx, is 'by the proletariat self-enlightening and self-uniting'.The workers are the active side, not an elite of 'enlighteners'.You really should read Marx's Theses on Feuerbach.
Not sure if this has been posted but here is the Mehrings biographyhttps://libcom.org/history/karl-marx-story-his-life-franz-mehringI also transcribed Keir Hardies awful Marx: The Man and his Message if anyone cares to proofread/ review ithttps://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Karl_Marx_the_man_and_his_message.pdf
Beside the poin, communists are workers too, communists are part of how the working class enlightens itself. However, the "Communist confession of faith" does kind of destroy Lenin's idea that a government should create "socialism" in order to enlighten the working class, but that it won't happen until the working class is conscious and unified.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/06/09.htm"The development of the masses cannot he ordered by decree."
jondwhite wrote:Not sure if this has been posted but here is the Mehrings biographyhttps://libcom.org/history/karl-marx-story-his-life-franz-mehringI also transcribed Keir Hardies awful Marx: The Man and his Message if anyone cares to proofread/ review ithttps://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Karl_Marx_the_man_and_his_message.pdfClarificationThe conflict with Marx and Bakunin was not based on the dictatorship of the proletariat as some Anarchist groups have propagated, it was about the conspiracies theory vs the political participation of the working class,Bakunin supported the conspiracies theory, which makes him a proto-Leninist. .There was a similar situation in the case of the government of Salvador Allende in Chile, and we explained this controversy in this articlehttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/education/depth-articles/politics-and-conflict/pinochet-and-socialismhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/printpdf/book/export/html/3953
LBird wrote:Young Master Smeet wrote:Quote:Question 6: How do you wish to prepare the way for your community of property?Answer: By enlightening and uniting the proletariat.You still don't seem to have got the hang of Marx, and Engels' mistakes, YMS.The 'answer', for Marx, is 'by the proletariat self-enlightening and self-uniting'.The workers are the active side, not an elite of 'enlighteners'.You really should read Marx's Theses on Feuerbach.
You are riding again in your favorite horse in order to take off track the real topic which is Marx vs Lenin contrasted, and to prove thru Lenin works that the socialists party is a Leninist party, which you have not proven yet. There have been several knock out
Another aspect of Lenin and the Leninists is the so called Transitional society. In this articles cited below Comrade Adam Buick did a very good job in debunking such myth. It has also been translated to the Spanish ( Castilian ) language http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/education/study-guides/myth-transitional-society
Another myth that we have debunked is the idea propagated by the Trotskyist that the repression and killing of workers started to takeplace under the period of Stalin, It did start when Lenin and Trotsky were commissar, and this book review done by the Socialist Party explains that situationhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1990s/1996/no-1108-december-1996/book-reviews PS Each one of these articles can also be found in our section in Spanish at the Socialist Party of Great Britain website, or at the site/blog Movimiento Socialista Mundial
http://www.wspus.org/in-depth/russia-lenin-and-state-capitalism/Russia-Lenin and State capitalism. Our analysis of Russia since 1917
http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1960s/1969/no-781-september-1969/lenin-twists-marxismLenin twists Marxism. Lenin concept of socialism and communism, and Marx concept of socialism-communism.
Another nail for the coffin of Leninism http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1960s/1969/no-781-september-1969/lenin-twists-marxism So, in conclusion, Where is our similarity or equality with Leninism ?
Lenin, a socialist analysishttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2004/no-1193-january-2004/lenin-socialist-analysis In this discussion we have proven with solid evidences that we are not Leninists, or proto-Leninists
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