Labour MPs revolt against Corbyn

May 2024 Forums General discussion Labour MPs revolt against Corbyn

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 117 total)
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  • #120332
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster
    Quote:
    We have 120 full AWL members. Tom Watson knows very well that we are a small group among half a million Labour members. This is the extent of the Trotskyist threat.

    http://www.workersliberty.org/node/26939

    #120333
    jondwhite
    Participant

    Corbyn has dismissed entryists as 'sectarian extremists'

    Quote:
    At no stage in anyone's most vivid imagination are there 300,000 sectarian extremists at large
    #120334
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    A brilliant analysis by Paul Mason on the Smith-Corbyn situation– the real coup is yet to come, he says:https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/the-sound-of-blairite-silence-aed2ef726c8a#.q61t8vu2j

    #120335
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Someone else who sees Owen Smith as a mere stalking horse:http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/miners-hero-tyrone-osullivan-given-11666739

    Quote:
    “I'm disappointed Owen has done what he did,” he said. “He’s from a socialist background, his father was [Labour historian] Dai Smith, he comes from Pontypridd and he doesn’t seem to realise that he’s a stalking horse.“If, for whatever reason, Jeremy gave up tomorrow, Owen would find he’s not top of the list – he’d be forced down to about 25th…“Even if by the most impossible luck he won this election, I can promise you he will not be standing as the leader of the party in the next election… If the right wing are just using him, what a tragedy."

    He's using "socialist" in the sense of Old Labour of course (which wasn't socialist in our sense)..As "David" Smith, Owen's father was the joint author of The Fed, the official history of the South Wales miner's union. Hence, no doubt, Tyrone O'Sullivan's admiration for him.

    #120336
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I don’t think we’ll see a Corbyn PM.  The 1% will get him in the end, using all the means at their disposal; smear tactics, the Murdoch press, the PLP, the Courts.I see that he has made comments against NATO lately – that he’d like to see the organisation disbanded.  That’ll go down like a lead balloon – possibly among the electorate as well.  The Russian ghost looms large.  Maybe the security question is the one that will bring him down.I’m not saying this with any glee, but with a heavy heart.  Many people in awful circumstances are seeing their first glimmer of hope for a long time.  They think that a re-styled Labour Party is going to make their situation more bearable.I wonder what insights Corbyn himself has of the juggernaut that is capitalism – what exactly he thinks he can do before he is stopped – or has to seriously compromise his principles?Unfortunately, the workers themselves do not seem to be anywhere near a state of “awakening” – merely hoping for more “investment” and “jobs” seems to be the limit of their desires.

    #120337
    maxhess
    Participant

    Galloway’s Respect party has deregistered as a political organisation in order to support Corbyn.

    #120338
    ALB
    Keymaster

    You can still be a political party without being registered with the Electoral Commission. Only, if you are not, you cannot contest elections under your party name. The SWP, for example, is not a registered party.

    #120339
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    One of the cornerstones of the Socialist Party’s case is that the revolution must be won though the ballot box – it must be 100% democratic.I am therefore surprised to note that the current anti-democratic manoeuvrings within the Labour Party haven’t generated more discussion on this forum.I understand the whole “reformism” argument as regards Corbyn, but the subversion of democracy which is currently happening within the Labour Party surely could have wider implications.The “old guard” within the Labour Party are trawling social media for Labour Party members who are expressing views in support of Corbyn and denying them a vote in the leadership election.  At least one trade union boss in favour of Corbyn has also been barred.  This comes after the purge of the 130,000 members who had recently joined Labour.This is on top of the concerted smear campaign which is going on against Corbyn and his supports; the continuous drip-drip attacks every day in the MSM.As regards the blatant attack on democracy, the MSM are mainly silent.Quite frankly, I find it chilling.

    #120340
    ALB
    Keymaster

    My (conspiracy) theory as to why the ruling class, echoed by their media, are so hostile to Corbyn is that he is against Britain having nuclear weapons and being part of NATO. They can't afford to have Her Majesty's Opposition and alternative government committed to this. Remember the last time this risked happening. They split the Labour Party so that it didn't have a chance of getting into power. They could well do it again.Of course, we know that the Labour Party has always been undemocratic (controlled by its parliamentary leaders not its membership) and that in government it won't be able to behave much differently from governments under capitalism everywhere. So the Labour leadership election is a bit of a side show for us though the anti-Corbyn campaign in the media is revealing in that it shows how they try to manipulate things in the interests of the ruling class.

    #120341
    rodmanlewis
    Participant
    ALB wrote:
    Of course, we know that the Labour Party has always been undemocratic (controlled by its parliamentary leaders not its membership) and that in government it won't be able to behave much differently from governments under capitalism everywhere.

    The Labour Party is undemocratic because its members prefer it that way. They want someone to do their thinking for them. It's quite different from a dictatorship where the population are facing the barrel of a gun and can't walk away from it.

    #120342
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    ALB wrote

    Quote:
    My (conspiracy) theory as to why the ruling class, echoed by their media, are so hostile to Corbyn is that he is against Britain having nuclear weapons and being part of NATO. 

    Not a bad (conspiracy) theory; you’re probably correct.  (I made a similar point in my post #80.)I disagree that this should be a “side show” for the SP, for a couple of reasons.  The first is that this topic is currently one that currently engages the man and woman in street; walk into any pub and the patrons will have an opinion on the Corbyn question – much more so than more or less obscure thinkers from the 19th century (not that these discussions don’t have their place, not least the man himself, Marx – but you get my drift.)Secondly, because the democratic process is so central to what the SP stands for.  If the SP ignores threats to democracy – especially the way it is blatantly and openly carried out for all to see over today’s social media –  they are close to “sinning” against this famous poem by Pastor Martin Niemoeller:First they came for the CommunistsAnd I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for meIn other words, if democracy is being subverted, the SP should have an opinion on it, and speak out on behalf of those whose democratic rights are being threatened.Meel

    #120343
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Rodmanlewis wrote:

    Quote:
    The Labour Party is undemocratic because its members prefer it that way. They want someone to do their thinking for them. It's quite different from a dictatorship where the population are facing the barrel of a gun and can't walk away from it. 

    That was the case for the old style Labour Party, perhaps.  They now seem to be going through a bit of a “revival” in this regard, centred on Corbyn.Meel

    #120344

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/paul-rogers/corbyn-crowd-and-its-signal

    Quote:
    Fifteen years ago the ward branch had about 70 members but this slowly declined to just 37 by the beginning of 2015. Immediately after the general election in May that began to pick up, as if some people were so appalled at the result that they thought they really had to get involved or at least show some commitment. Then, when Jeremy Corbyn’s campaign for the leadership began to take off last summer the numbers rose and continued to do so after his election in September, exceeding the Blair era high and heading for 100 by the end of the year.

    Lobster speculates that there is a Streisand effect going on: the more Labour MPs and the Media attack Corbyn, the more he comes to people's attention as a pole of opposition to the current regime.  (I've seen MPs tweets showing how Corbyn has less support among long-term Labour members, but lets not forget, of these joiners, many are re-joiners).

    #120345
    jondwhite
    Participant

    Nobody's being persecuted apart from Corbyn himself and people voluntarily signing up with the anti-working class Labour party. We don't need to be unpleasant about it but we don't need to show political sympathy with an opponent.

    #120346

    Jondwhite,sorry, you've lost me?

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