Is the Pope a Marxist?

June 2024 Forums General discussion Is the Pope a Marxist?

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  • #82526
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Of course not, but that's not the opinion of the Rabid Right in America:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/3/rush-limbaugh-decries-pope-francis-pure-marxism/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

    Despite the headline "Rampant capitalism is killing the poor, warns Pope", I don't think the Pope actually used the word "capitalism" in his recent Encyclical or Bull or whatever it was, but he seems to have done in his New Year Message last 1 January:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20882894

    So the word is getting around as a dirty word. The Catholic Church has always condemned laissez-faire capitalism (now rebaptised "neo-liberalism"), at first because they preferred feudalism, but that doesn't mean it's been against all forms of capitalism. In fact, they (like those who go on about "neo-liberalism" rather than capitalism) favour state intervention to try to smooth out the rough edges of capitalism which is basically ok because it is based on private property.

    Is the Pope a Catholic?

    #98698
    rodshaw
    Participant

    He's obviously a Catholic Marxist. What's not to like?

    #98699
    admice
    Participant

    Unofrtunately this Pope is going to perpetuate Catholicism and make it more popular again. Cool. Limbaugh gave publicity to MArxism and alienated Catholics.It's a win win for the left.

    #98700
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Again the SOYMB was there. http://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/11/its-not-all-papal-bull.htmlIt was not his first critique of the way capitalism is operating, i was planning an earlier blog on it but it got lost. He has tried to rein in extravagence of some cardinals such as the German one, and he has tried to re-organise the Vatican bank to counter the corruption that was insiduous. But on the issue of sex abuse he is still conservative, refusing to co-operate with the UN on the grounds as Pope he has no control over the Catholic Church !!!http://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/12/when-is-pope-not-pope.htmlObama, the Pope and John Major…what a Marxist Party that would be, maybe LU can count them as members

    #98701
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    rodshaw wrote:
    He's obviously a Catholic Marxist. What's not to like?

     A Catholic-Marxist is an incompatible combination, it is like mixing oil and vinegar, religion and socialism are incompatibles, because some reformist leftist groups are supporting him, it does not mean that the catholic church is taking another road, in any way, the left will support anybody, but he does not support the so called liberation theology.  This new pope is the cosmetic face of a multi-national called the Vatican, and institution associated with the Sicilian-American mafia, with the drug traffics, money laundering, and they have assassinated their own popes.He is like Obama who at the very  beginning wanted to present him as  the cosmetic face of us imperialism and us capitalism, you can shave and trim the hairs of a lion, but in its nature, it is still a lionIn Europe,  Catholicism has had a big decline, they have a very small clientele at the present time, they have been forced to sell, lease, or destroy some of their real estate properties, and probably some of them are going to be purchased by the Islamic, but still in the third world they have a large clientele of peoplesDavid Yallop described on his two books all the commercial and criminal dealing of the Vatican, which do not differ with the crimes committed by the protestant church either, or the crimes committed by Christianism.Deschner has described in  11 volumes that he wrote all the crimes committed by all the Christians sects and the Vatican  for two centuriesThis  new guy that they have now, he was involved with the dictators and criminals of Argentina. During that dark period in  Argentina, after  a coup d'tat promoted by the CIA and the Argentinean ruling class, several  priests were killed by priests, and thousands of peoples were killed They have tried to cover up his past in the same way that they did with John Paul II when he was associated with the Nazis, and the biggest dictators of Latin America such as Videla, and Pinochet, and the Pope of Hitler was the man that signed all the "Concordatos" with most of the dictators of the whole world

    #98702
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Politically and ideologically,  US is one of the most backward country in the whole world. They have said and propagated  that Obama is a communist, and that  the so called Obama care is a communist measure.Obama is just another puppet of the ruling class,  and most of the program that he has implemented they will only benefits to the capitalist class including the health insurance reform, and he has continued all the programs that were initiated by others presidents including Ronald Reagan.It is not strange that an American Rabbi has said that  the new pope is a Marxist.,  The Pope  has not attacked the capitalist mode of production either, they are part of the capitalist system, and their ideology and Christianity is part of the ruling class ideology.  Most Marxists and Leftists in Latin America and Argentina do not have the same opinion.  P.S. Pretty soon  Catholicism is going to be the second monotheist religion in the USA

    #98703
    rodshaw
    Participant
    mcolome1 wrote:
    rodshaw wrote:
    He's obviously a Catholic Marxist. What's not to like?

    A Catholic-Marxist is an incompatible combination, it is like mixing oil and vinegar, religion and socialism are incompatibles, because some reformist leftist groups are supporting him, it does not mean that the catholic church is taking another road, in any way, the left will support anybody, but he does not support the so called liberation theology.  …

    Er, yes, irony doesn't carry well over the internet.

    #98704
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Frankie makes another critique of capitalism.  http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/12/pope-economy-idUSL6N0JR2CE20131212 "The succession of economic crises should lead to a timely rethinking of our models of economic development and to a change in lifestyles," he said."The grave financial and economic crises of the present time … have pushed man to seek satisfaction, happiness and security in consumption and earnings out of all proportion to the principles of a sound economy," he said, calling on governments to implement "effective policies" to guarantee people's fundamental rights, including access to capital, services, educational resources, healthcare and technology…" Send him  a LU membership form. 

    #98705
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I don't suppose this will stop Roman Catholics voting for Boris, but then it's a good thing that Catholics no longer vote as their priests tell them. I wonder what leading Tory Catholics such as Anne Widdecombe, former Thatcher(ite) Minister Norman St John-Stevas (but I think he might be dead) and for that matter the premier Catholic peer, the Duke of Norfolk, think of all this.

    #98706
    rodshaw
    Participant

    Maybe his comments are just a prelude to laying off some vatican employees in the interests of austerity.

    #98707
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Not to mention one of the later converts to RC, Tony Blair. But he never let the previous Pope's (and before his own conversion)  anti Iraq war views interfere with his personal message from God to go to war. Why let the middle-man thwart the invasion!! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.htmlDidn't the Pope recently lay off some of his Vatican Bank executives for fraud and money laundering?http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/3029390a-5c68-11e3-931e-00144feabdc0.html

    #98708
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    In answer to  the thread's title…Frankie the Pope says , no i am not a Marxist. "The ideology of Marxism is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don't feel offended," Francis was quoted as saying. Defending his criticism of the "trickle-down" theory of economics, he added: "There was the promise that once the glass had become full it would overflow and the poor would benefit. But what happens is that when it's full to the brim, the glass magically grows, and thus nothing ever comes out for the poor … I repeat: I did not talk as a specialist but according to the social doctrine of the church. And this does not mean being a Marxist."http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/pope-francis-defends-criticism-of-capitalism-not-marxist

    #98709
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Another case of the Catholic clegy on the side of the angels. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/15/archbishop-westminster-vincent-nichols-attacks-immigration-targets "The most senior Catholic in England and Wales has branded the government's pursuit of immigration targets as "inhumane" and warned that rules preventing foreign spouses of UK citizens from settling here was damaging the development of thousands of British children." One could be cynical and argue that his support for increased immigration was because it was the recent influx of Polish catholic that helped boost declining congregation numbers. 

    #98710
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Today's Financial Times contains a full page (and the FT is a broadheet) reply to the Pope trailed on the front page as "Capitalism's promise. The Pope is wrong about inequality".  Actually, this is not really an accurate description of what the article, by John Gapper, actually argues. More accurate is the subheading:

    Quote:
    Capitalism While the income gap in industrialised societies grows inexorably wider, global inequality is shrinking.

    Grapper's argument is that capitalism can claim the credit for reducing the gap between the industrialised and industrialising countries as it spreads in China, India, etc. He is not so keen to proclaim that it is capitalism that is leading to the "inexorably wider" income gap in the industrialised countries, even though this follows from his argument.He also produces a quote from the same papal bull:

    Quote:
    The Pope loves everyone, rich and poor alike, but he is obliged to remind all that the rich must help, respect and promote the poor.

    Not a Marxist then, just an advocate of charity, as of course we knew.

    #98711
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Our SOYMB blog also has the same quote with the same conclusion as you drawhttp://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/11/its-not-all-papal-bull.html"He is advocating the (and failed) remedy of good old fashioned christian charity.  Capitalism and charity have worked hand in hand to turn us into a world of few benefactors and millions of beggars."But it is an interesting development if we also consider another religious leader the Dalai Lama's admission of semi-Marxist beliefs from a year or so ago. http://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2011/02/marxism-and-dalai-lama.htmlWe should be prepared for the Archbishop of Canterbury form A arriving at HO in the near future 

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