ICC Open Meeting. 5 October 2024
March 2025 › Forums › Events and announcements › ICC Open Meeting. 5 October 2024
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Citizenoftheworld.
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October 9, 2024 at 4:58 pm #254331
ALB
KeymasterSome here are betraying their age. That famous debate took place over 40 years ago, in March 1980.
October 9, 2024 at 5:18 pm #254332DJP
ParticipantWell the meeting surely must have left an impression!
Slight digression, but out of the groups that split from the ICC the group Internationalist Perspective is the most interesting or least bad.
I see their most recent article may be worth talking about in the economic calculation thread. Though I’m not sure if their criticisms of “democracy” relate to formal bourgeois/liberal democracy or to the concept of “democracy” in general.
Labor vouchers and radical democracy: is that the post-capitalist road to a human community?
October 10, 2024 at 5:48 pm #254337ALB
KeymasterActually, the ICC had a “security service” even now under capitalism, at least the French section did, which took those accused of transgressing to interrogations by the leadership.
“In 2000 a group of ex-members of the French section of the ICC published a pamphlet Que Ne Pas Faire? (‘What Is Not To Be Done?’) which exposed similar practices to some of those described by Lalich in the DWP (an older, charismatic leader; adoption of a new name; an order-giving hierarchy; interrogations; a security service).”
Incidentally, one of those ex-ICCers behind that pamphlet was Raoul Victor who has written a quite good criticism of the Labour time voucher idea:
https://libcom.org/library/economy-transition-communist-society
October 10, 2024 at 8:07 pm #254339DJP
ParticipantThe UK section has engaged in this type of loonyness too. If they are different nowadays I don’t know.
https://libcom.org/history/open-letter-international-communist-current
October 11, 2024 at 3:07 am #254343ZJW
ParticipantA critique of that IP review of the David Adam book is here:
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This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by
ZJW.
October 11, 2024 at 11:52 am #254348DJP
ParticipantI wasn’t sure how much IP really fitted into the “communization” camp, but found this on libcom. As yet I haven’t read any of these in enough depth to have a valid opinion, but posting here for future reference and if anyone else may be interested.
October 26, 2024 at 8:50 am #254534ALB
KeymasterIn a thread about this meeting on Libcom the ICC had this to say:
“a comrade from the SPGB was there and informed us that some comrades in the organisation are beginning to think that we are in an increasingly catastrophic situation, not just the endless cycle of boom and slump that the SPGB usually puts forward against the communist left’s notion of a decadent system which is posing a real threat to the survival of humanity.”
(https://libcom.org/discussion/icc-open-meeting-5-october-london).They like to pooh-pooh our view that capitalism will not collapse automatically for economic reasons but will continue going through cycles of booms and slumps.
Their view is that capitalism will collapse economically through a failure to find markets outside the capitalist system which it has to do as it produces more than can be sold within the system Luxemburg’s mistaken view). They haven’t mentioned this so much recently but their Spanish-language section has just produced a full-blooded defence of this position and that this supposed problem for capitalism is now more acute than it has ever been.
We will have to wait for the English translation to engage with them on this.
February 10, 2025 at 7:09 am #256668ZJW
ParticipantFitting in (sort of maybe) with my #254343 above, and the IP critique of David Adam, here is, fresh off the press, Hermann Lueer’s critique of Postone:
Hermann Lueer: On the Critique of Moishe Postone’s »Time, Labor and Social Domination«
(Hermann Lueer is the labor-voucherist who republished the GIC’s ‘Fundamental Principles of Communist Production and Distribution’ and speaks often about it, including what he considers to be its ‘current significance’:
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This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by
ZJW.
February 15, 2025 at 5:09 am #256799Citizenoftheworld
Participant“Why are we allowing the ICC to advertise their meetings here? I think it was a previous moderator who made the decision, based on the idea that we are part of the “thin red line”.”
Unless something changed after I left, belonging to a supposed “thin red line” was never a requirement for being able to post in the forum, or this section specifically. As explained in the section description; “Such postings do not imply political approval of, or agreement with, the SPGB. Inappropriate posts may be deleted.”
Knowing about meetings of other groups is a useful thing. Surely you would want to talk to these people, at least sometimes?
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We publish articles in the websites of others political organizations.
I have two forum where ICC participate in the discussions
I know two leftist organizations who have translated two of our articles and they distributed them in the internet
An ex member of the ICC ( CCI ) is a member of the World Socialist Movement.
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Citizenoftheworld.
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