How does it work

[Ralph]

Isn't it about building that audience then with language people can understand and tangible ideas they can relate to, pre-armed with answers to difficult questions, don't believe that there are many people out there with the time or inclination to get involved in politics at all let alone contribute to the extent you're suggesting, the audience within this forum is not representative when it comes to interest and engagement, of that you can be sure. Your right all I've contributed is questions and I wish I did have the imagination, drive and/or intelligence to offer something a little more useful.The SPGB has been around for 110 years, out of interest how many active members are there currently ?

[Young Master Smeet]

Exactly, and detailed discussions of how exactly we'll allocated houses, who will work the farm rota, will there be beer and fags in Socialism do not reach out to a broad audience. Two questions:1) Can you run your own life?2) Do you want to?We run the world now, why not run it for ourselves?  We know it's possible, the technology, skills and resources are there, it just takes the decision.  Continually asking 'but whatabout?' and 'how' just defers the decision.  When the revolution is tomorrow, we'll work out the detail, all of us, in a big movement.

[Ralph]

Young Master Smeet wrote:

So, do you feel the same way about wage slavery?

I suppose so, If there's a convincing alternative that has some proof of concept then I suspect the majority might, if it looks like it couldn't work then it would be foolhardy and potentially disasterous. But of course I would feel far more strongly about abolishing slavery than wage slavery if I were a slave I'd have a lot less to lose and a lot more to gain, the choice would be more black and white.

[Young Master Smeet]

The proof of concept is every non-commercial action in everyday life and between people.  Our lives and workplaces are where we learn how to run a commodity free society.

[Ralph]

Correct me if I'm wrong though but in over 100 years the party has really failed to reach out to any audience let alone a broad one, doesn't that suggest that maybe a different approach is needed?

[Ralph]

robbo203 wrote:

Hi Ralph,  Socialists do sometimes turn their attention to the practical organisation of a hypothetical future socialist society.  In fact the SPGB published a pamphlet on this very subject here http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/socialism-practical-alternative 

 Finally read this, it's really good… It starts to look persuasive, if this was done back in 1994 was there a different attitude or was this  just a rebellion! If you can go this far you can go further surely…Create something saleable and put it into the public domain, what is wrong with a scatter gun approach I wonder, isn't the initial goal at to persuade as many people as possible across the world to at least consider the idea ? Why limit your audience in any way, I don't understand that.

[Young Master Smeet]

Ralph wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong though but in over 100 years the party has really failed to reach out to any audience let alone a broad one, doesn't that suggest that maybe a different approach is needed?

If, after logical analysis of the situation, all we can do is to promote socialism, then that is what we must continue to do.  If nothing happens then either we're wrong (in which case we are doing no harm and indeed some good in keeping some hobbyists occupied) or, conditions and events will prove us right, in which case we cn aid and speed the process that will produce socialism.  We can't make socialism by an act of will or by a cunningly persuasive argument, the basic deire for socialism has to be there before people will even listen to the case.

[robbo203]

Ralph wrote:

robbo203 wrote:

Hi Ralph,  Socialists do sometimes turn their attention to the practical organisation of a hypothetical future socialist society.  In fact the SPGB published a pamphlet on this very subject here http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/socialism-practical-alternative 

 Finally read this, it's really good… It starts to look persuasive, if this was done back in 1994 was there a different attitude or was this  just a rebellion! If you can go this far you can go further surely… 

 I wouldnt disagree with that.  What happened to the whole "Productiion for Use "  initiative back in 1980s/90s? It seemed to have just fizzled out, Such a pity.  It was one of the most positive projects ever embarked upon  by the SPGB

[Bijou Drains]

robbo203 wrote:

Ralph wrote:

robbo203 wrote:

Hi Ralph,  Socialists do sometimes turn their attention to the practical organisation of a hypothetical future socialist society.  In fact the SPGB published a pamphlet on this very subject here http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/socialism-practical-alternative 

 Finally read this, it's really good… It starts to look persuasive, if this was done back in 1994 was there a different attitude or was this  just a rebellion! If you can go this far you can go further surely… 

 I wouldnt disagree with that.  What happened to the whole "Productiion for Use "  initiative back in 1980s/90s? It seemed to have just fizzled out, Such a pity.  It was one of the most positive projects ever embarked upon  by the SPGB

The motive force behind it was Pieter Lawrence. Since his sad passing the work of the production for use committee seems to have fallen by the wayside,Ralph may be interested to read another of Pieter's peices:http://theoryandpractice.org.uk/library/how-socialism-can-organise-production-without-money-adam-buick-pieter-lawrence-1984The link also mentions a guy named Adam Buick, wonder what ever happened to him?I think there is a need to continue this practical work within the party, anyone else up to do some of this work?

[ALB]

Actually the Production for Use Committee continued until a year or so ago when it was amalgamated with the Education Committee. Some of its work was used for articles in the Socialist Standard or for talks. For instance:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2012/no1289-january-2012/too-many-people-or-not-enough-food-productionhttp://www.meetup.com/The-Socialist-Party-of-Great-Britain/events/102162132/

[robbo203]

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

 I think there is a need to continue this practical work within the party, anyone else up to do some of this work?

 Tim  What about this practical work taking the form of a research department that draws on the research skills of individual members and collates the results in the form of regular bulletins along the lines of the Labour Research Department?My brother, Andy, who was a member of the SW regional branch before he died in 2014, started up something under his own initiative which provides a kind examplar of what I am talking about http://andycox1953.webs.com/database.htmhttp://andycox1953.webs.com/database2.htmhttp://andycox1953.webs.com/database3.htm 

[DJP]

Collecting facts that only support one side of the argument is just an exercise in confirmation bias. Wouldn't we be better off collecting arguments against socialism and then seeing if what we say stacks up against it?Personally, I'm not to fond of the utopian planning of the future bit either…

[robbo203]

DJP wrote:

Collecting facts that only support one side of the argument is just an exercise in confirmation bias. Wouldn't we be better off collecting arguments against socialism and then seeing if what we say stacks up against it? 

 That's precisely the point – what have we got to stack up against the the arguments against socialism? For that you need to do some basic research  which means collecting data to present an evidence-based against capitalism.  By all means "collect arguments against socialism" but the point is to be able to effectively respond to these arguments if you want to come across as credible

[Ralph]

I think this train of thought is great, how to respond to the nay sayers with well considered arguments, the ideas considered to a point where criticism levelled can be deflected convincingly, "we'll all work it out when the time comes" does not achieve that and denies you any credibilty. You don't have any considered criticism as it stands since the volume of following is insignificant and provides no threat to the incumbent – were that to change though you can bet you'll have to defend the idea with a lot more detail than exists now. You may think that the majority is the solution but you have to persuade them first, and there are two sides to every story..

[Anonymous]

If you want to jump aboard the good ship Socialism and join us, you can help out with  fresh sea breezes and bright wheezes in the  Education Committee.

[Author]

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