Facism Is coming to USA…
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People often twist the ideas of great thinkers into strict ideologies that the original thinkers never intended. For example, Nietzsche → Hitler, Marx → Stalin, Darwin → Social Darwinism. The originals shouldn’t be blamed; the problem is with those who misuse their ideas. Thinkers create ideas, ideologues turn them into dogma.
‘The originals shouldn’t be blamed; the problem is with those who misuse their ideas. Thinkers create ideas, ideologues turn them into dogma.’
Nietzsche > Superman > Strength of the will > Nazism
Hobbes > Human Nature > Bourgeois ideology
Sartre > Authenticity/Individuality > Alienation/false consciousness
Indeed I’m inclined to agree with Marx that all philosophy is driven by ideology. It is no defense to say that philosophers like journalists, artists, novelists are not responsible for at least some of the consequences of their work. That historically obscure Rabbi of 2000 years ago may have been horrified by the use of his preaching in justifying the Puritan violence during the English Revolution but the fact is that if you believe in an unchanging supernatural hierarchy and preach it to others then historically you must take responsibility for the inevitable consequences.Then Marx must bear responsibility for Bolshevism, Mao and Pol Pot.
Nietzsche meant by “Superman” the rational man who has emancipated himself from religion and bourgeois morality.
“The Will to Power” is not Nietzsche’s work at all, but his sister’s, who was a Nazi, and who passed it off as his.“Editing and Publication of The Will to Power:
” After Nietzsche’s mental collapse in 1889 and subsequent death in 1900, Elisabeth became the curator and editor of his unpublished manuscripts. She compiled these notes into a book titled The Will to Power (published in stages from 1901) and presented it as her brother’s intended magnum opus.
“Distortion of Philosophy:
A staunch German nationalist and antisemite (she co-founded a failed “pure Aryan” colony in Paraguay with her husband, Bernhard Förster), Elisabeth manipulated her brother’s writings, removing or altering passages that were critical of antisemitism and German nationalism to align his philosophy with her own proto-fascist ideology.” (Google)TM -‘Then Marx must bear responsibility for Bolshevism, Mao and Pol Pot.’
A very strange statement. Where would you find anything that remotely supports or justifies the crimes of these monsters in the writings of Marx!? I note that you do not seek to exonerate the other philosophers I mention. Another thing to bear in mind is that many philosophers were very poor writers and so it is not surprising that they are misinterpreted – about the only thing I will concede to Nietzsche is his talent for writing.Just following your logic, that philosophers must bear responsibility for things done in their name. If Nietzsche must take responsibility for Hitler, then Marx must for Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot.
You no doubt judge Nietzsche on a non-existent link, which is just the same. In fact, for you, it seems the non-existent link is your definition of the man, just as anti-Marxists do with Marx.In fact, most people point to Soviet and Khmer Rouge atrocities and say “Look what Marxism has caused!”
Google:
” Nazism was not a direct, intended product of Nietzsche’s philosophy; rather, the Nazis warped and selectively appropriated his complex ideas, such as the Übermensch, the will to power, and his critique of egalitarianism, to create a facade of intellectual justification for their ideology. Nietzsche was a vehement critic of antisemitism and German nationalism, and his philosophy’s emphasis on individualism and aristocratic radicalism was at odds with the mass-based, state-centric, and racially motivated ideology of Nazism. However, the Nazis, particularly through his sister’s distorted editing and their own ideological spin, were able to present Nietzsche as a prophet of their cause, a claim that is fundamentally a misrepresentation of his work.
Nazi appropriation and misrepresentation of Nietzsche
Anti-antisemitism vs. Nazi antisemitism: Nietzsche was a vocal opponent of antisemitism, even going so far as to publicly denounce it, despite the fact that his sister and some initial publishers were antisemitic. Nazi propaganda actively ignored or twisted his anti-antisemitic views and presented him as a precursor to their racist ideology.
Philosophical concepts:
The Übermensch: The Nazis co-opted Nietzsche’s concept of the “Übermensch” (Superman) and reframed it as a racial ideal for the German “master race,” a concept completely foreign to Nietzsche’s original idea, which was a more abstract goal for human self-overcoming and spiritual development.
Will to Power: This concept was reduced by the Nazis to a justification for brutal, militaristic expansionism and a primitive, a power-over-others mentality, whereas Nietzsche intended it as a more complex psychological and existential drive for growth and achievement.
Nietzsche’s anti-political stance: Nietzsche was famously anti-political and famously described himself as the “last anti-political German”. Nazi propaganda twisted this by claiming that his critique of democracy and egalitarianism was a justification for the volkish, totalitarian state, which was the opposite of what Nietzsche intended.
Nietzsche’s anti-nationalism: Nietzsche frequently criticized German nationalism and was disdainful of the German state’s focus on national power and the “herd mentality” it fostered. The Nazis, however, saw themselves as the spiritual and intellectual vanguard of a powerful, nationalistic state they claimed he was the prophet of.
Scholarly opposition and the misuse of Nietzsche’s legacy
Distorted editing: Nietzsche’s sister, Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche, who was a zealous antisemite and married to an early Nazi sympathizer, edited and published his works in a way that was highly biased and supported the Nazi cause.
Contradictory interpretations: While many scholars who knew Nietzsche condemned the Nazi interpretation of his work as a distortion, the Nazi propaganda machine was so successful that it created the impression that Nietzsche was a fascist intellectual precursor.
Nazi admiration: Despite the inconsistencies, many prominent Nazis were admirers of Nietzsche. Hitler had a bust of Nietzsche in his study, and he gave a gift of Nietzsche’s collected works to Mussolini. This further cemented the association in the public mind, even though it was a misrepresentation of Nietzsche’s views. “Hobbes is important in the history of materialism. Maybe he is used, and maybe he himself was one, by apologists for a ferocious human nature that cannot be changed, but, as I said in my piece, the philosopher, unlike the ideologue and the conspiraloon, does not reject a thinker in his entirety because of one or two things he may have been wrong about.
TM – ‘Just following your logic, that philosophers must bear responsibility for things done in their name. If Nietzsche must take responsibility for Hitler, then Marx must for Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot.
You no doubt judge Nietzsche on a non-existent link, which is just the same. In fact, for you, it seems the non-existent link is your definition of the man, just as anti-Marxists do with Marx.I repeat where is there any evidence that Marx would have supported Mao, Stalin or Pol Pot? You’re talking nonsense. Nietzsche himself dismissed the notion that philosophers were ‘objective seekers of truth’. In Beyond Good and Evil Nietzsche says:’A living thing seeks above all to discharge its strength – life itself is the will to power’.
Where did I ever say: ‘that philosophers must bear responsibility for things done in their name’? Sometimes even philosophers are unambiguous. We’re all driven by ideological motives, even your beloved philosophers, the trick is to be aware of them and try to contain them.I dispute that I am motivated by ideology.
A Maoist is motivated by ideology. A Christian is motivated by ideology.
A flat earther is, and so is a Leninist.
These are all people whose “opinions” are not opinions, but mantras, laid down for them by others so that they might unquestioningly follow.I don’t claim that Marx must bear responsibility for the actions of pseudomarxists. I’m saying that he must, if we follow your logic, not mine.
Wez: ” It is no defense to say that philosophers like journalists, artists, novelists are not responsible for at least some of the consequences of their work. “
” It is no defense to say that philosophers like journalists, artists, novelists are not responsible for at least some of the consequences of their work. “
Exactly – I’m not saying writers/artists are always wholly responsible for the misuse or misunderstanding of their work but some are responsible, like those I mention, for the consequences of their work. There’s a wonderfully funny and insightful film called ‘Stranger than Fiction’ starring Will Ferrell which explores this relationship. Sometimes when I acquire strange interpretations of my writing I have the urge to defend my original intentions but once published it doesn’t belong to just me. I have to accept that it wasn’t good enough to communicate my meaning and leave it as it stands (or falls). We all have to take responsibility for some of the consequences of our work.
You dispute that you are motivated by ideology but isn’t socialism an ideology? I think Marx makes the distinction that ours is a conscious ideology in contrast to the unconscious prejudices and class conditioning of reactionary philosophers.When Marx was a proto Menshevik, Lenin copied or took some of his conceptions to elaborate some of his Leninist distortions, including the national liberation. Marx changed his point of view when he became politically mature. Was Marx or Engels responsible for Leninism?
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