Tagged: Covid and reset
- This topic has 1,592 replies, 41 voices, and was last updated 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Anonymous.
August 9, 2021 at 6:53 am #220575ALBKeymaster
An anti-vaxxer comrade (unfortunately there are two or three) sent me a link from an anti-vaxxer site about this article in the belief that it backs their case.
In fact, it doesn’t as it supports vaccination but makes the point that having the disease also provides immunity against getting it (in fact part of the current UK government’s current policy to achieve “herd immunity” is based on this).
And that this means that it is unfair to discriminate against those who have had it but have not been vaccinated, eg over travel, entry to mass events, compared to those who have been vaccinated twice. I suppose it costs more to check a person’s anti-bodies than to vaccinate them.August 9, 2021 at 7:14 am #220576AnonymousInactive
Vaccines have had opposition since the first time that they were used on humans, and most of the time the reasons to oppose them have not been valid, it is better to be vaccinated. A vaccinated person against the Coronavirus can be infected with one of the mutations but the consequences are minors compared to a person that has not been vaccinated.
They do not want to be vaccinated which is fine with me but does not infect me and my family and other human beings. Having the diseases produces immunity in the cemetery, and those who have survived the disease are going to suffer from many physiological and pathological problems, and in the long run, many are going to need organs transplants because this is a multi-systemic disease.
Donald Trump survived because they used the best treatment and he had the best pulmonary specialists and they used the best medications that nobody else can get, but when he left the hospital he was still sick and he infected many persons and nobody knows how he is doing at the present time and despite that he was vaccinated twice and most of his followers are anti-vaxxers
The disease affects the muscles of the heart, the lungs, and the kidneys and it also affects the brain, it produces neurological problems. This disease is not a joke, and politicians do not know anything about Medicine and Epidemy, they only want to stay in power and obtain big salaries, in our time peoples like to follow politicians instead of scientific factsAugust 9, 2021 at 7:32 am #220579AnonymousInactive
Covid 19 fuels demand lung and heart transplants. There is a long waiting list
After the heart transplant, the patient must spend his/her whole life taking medications to avoid rejection and his/she is not going to live a normal life anymore. Do I want to want after all these problems for rejecting a vaccination? I prefer to be vaccinated and I do not care if the vaccine was made by the Illuminati, or contains a chip or a magnetAugust 9, 2021 at 12:13 pm #220584Bijou DrainsParticipant
As you say the article you cite, it is not exactly an anti vaxer article, it is saying that herd immunity is both possible and distributing vaccines on the basis of the likely outcomes of having Covid infection, i.e. give the vaccines to the most vulnerable throughout the world population, rather than give it to younger healthy people with very low chance of having serious and life threatening illness. I doubt that any Socialists would argue against that, however as we know fair distribution on the basis of need is unlikely to occur in a capitalist Society.
However the evidence that the paper presents about the level of protection offered by natural infection to Covid is, to my mind, nowhere near as clear cut as they present. For example the authors state that “Among the millions that have recovered from COVID19, exceedingly few have become sick again”, citing the study “SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in a cohort of 43,000 antibody-positive individuals followed for up to 35 weeks”. As the title of the study indicates this is a follow up study lasting 43 weeks, and stated that rates of re-infection had not shown any change at that point. So what we actually know is that it is uncommon for those who have had Covid to show signs of re-infection at the 7 month point. What happens after the 7 month period, is not at that known.
Similarly the authors also state that “While natural infection may not provide permanent infection-blocking immunity, it offers anti-disease immunity against severe disease and death that is likely permanent. “ However the study they cite to support this assertion states in its conclusion states “To our knowledge, the current study provides the first direct evidence for the induction of antigen-specific BMPCs after a viral infection in humans. However, we do acknowledge several limitations. Although we detected anti-S IgG antibodies in serum at least 7 months after infection in all 19 of the convalescent donors from whom we obtained bone marrow aspirates, we failed to detect S-specific BMPCs in 4 donors. Serum anti-S antibody titres in those four donors were low, suggesting that S-specific BMPCs may potentially be present at very low frequencies that are below the limit of detection of the assay. Another limitation is that we do not know the fraction of the S-binding BMPCs detected in our study that encodes neutralizing antibodies.”
The “Herd Immunity Hypothesis” also ignores very serious issues. For example the high level of infection amongst the healthy population who are supposedly at low risk of infection includes those young people with serious health conditions who do not know it. The levels of underdiagnosis of type 2 diabetes and also of monogenic Diabetes are well reported as conditions such as cardiomyopathy. Those considered healthy, may not actually be that healthy. Similarly the long term impact of long covid is not discussed. The ONS reported that :
• Self-reported long COVID symptoms were adversely affecting the day-to-day activities of 674,000 people in private households in the UK, with 196,000 of these individuals reporting that their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities had been limited a lot.
• Of people with self-reported long COVID, 697,000 first had (or suspected they had) COVID-19 at least 12 weeks previously, and 70,000 first had (or suspected they had) COVID-19 at least one year previously.
• Prevalence rates of self-reported long COVID were greatest in people aged 35 to 69 years, females.
Another factor that has not been addressed with the hypothesis is that a higher number of infections leads to a higher number of mutations, offering the virus the chance of escape from immunity from the very people that the writers suggest that it is important to vaccinate.
There is also an argument (and I am not saying I support it) that the process of creating areas that are more or less vaccinated and clear from Covid (as it appears is likely to happen in Western Europe, North America and possibly South America) is a more effective strategy than vaccinating the world population of vulnerable people before moving on to the less vulnerable people. The argument runs that creating areas of the world that are infection free and then spreading that infection free zone, is a bit like putting out areas of a fire and then consistently increasing the fire free zone, as opposed to the approach of trying to put out the most flammable parts of the fire and then working through the less flammable, with the risk of the bits you have put out are going to reignite. To be fair to that approach, historically, the eradication of small pox and the near eradication of polio followed the approach suggested.
August 9, 2021 at 2:02 pm #220585ALBKeymaster
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Bijou Drains.
Don’t you mean, at the end if your first paragraph, “unlikely to occur into a Capitalist society”?
Incidentally, here is how that anti-vaxxer site present that article. Typical of their style of arguing.August 9, 2021 at 3:33 pm #220587Bijou DrainsParticipant
Apologies, ALB, I have now edited the contribution.
The presentation of the article by the anti vaxers was a little alarming, but the comments underneath show the bizarre thought processes some of the anti vaxers have. I am not being insulting by saying that it appears that some of the respondents have serious mental health issues.August 9, 2021 at 8:23 pm #220589AnonymousInactive
Epidemics and Society: From the Black Death to the Present
Book by Frank M Snowden
I think I published in this thread the link to this book. This is the best source to clarify and debunk all the ignorances regarding pandemics, epidemics, and vaccination. It was not written by Dr. Donald Trump and other conspiracistsAugust 14, 2021 at 6:45 pm #220691AnonymousInactive
Pediatric hospitals are getting many children infected with Covid 19. Many parents thought that theirs children were safe and did not pay attention to the medicals and scientific advisesAugust 16, 2021 at 7:52 pm #220729
Reduced from the big dailies to Jacobin
Says it allAugust 17, 2021 at 12:20 am #220738
The ex-chair of the Competition and Markets Authority, Lord Tyrie, tests for travel have become “a predictable Covid rip-off”.
Holidaymakers have objected to high prices and poor service from many of the 400-plus test firms listed on the government’s website. Tests cost about £75 on average, but prices can reach hundreds.
Should we be surprised?August 17, 2021 at 2:11 pm #220774rodshawParticipant
I’m amazed anyone wants to go abroad at all. The quarantine hotels seem like a nightmare too, little more than prisons, with reports of women getting harassed by the “guards” who are supposed to be looking after them and the companies that administer them trying to pass the buck to the hotels and vice versa.August 18, 2021 at 12:48 am #220790AnonymousInactive
I’m amazed anyone wants to go abroad at all. The quarantine hotels seem like a nightmare too, little more than prisons, with reports of women getting harassed by the “guards” who are supposed to be looking after them and the companies that administer them trying to pass the buck to the hotels and vice versa.
Probably, they are a bunch of Masochists. Wages slaves thinking that they are free because they can travel from one place into another placeAugust 19, 2021 at 6:18 pm #220831
How bad does is it get that even Trump changed his mind before JohnsonAugust 19, 2021 at 6:26 pm #220834AnonymousInactive
Since the very beginning of the Pandemic several Trump advisers told him that the Corona virus was a serious threat and that certain medical protocol should have been followed, but profits before peoples is the law of the capitalist society. In the interview that he had and the book that was written by a journalist he admitted that the virus was dangerousAugust 20, 2021 at 1:17 am #220840AnonymousInactive
Post #220835 should have been posted under the Afghanistan thread
(It has been moved.Moderator)
- This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by PartisanZ.
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