Brand and Paxman

[J Surman]

Guys, I've tried both the addresses given to no avail. It's like they don't want mail! So frustrating.Any other (polite!) suggestions?

[BTSomerset]

This works for mehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/pm/contact/

[J Surman]

Thanks. It did it this time – 3rd time lucky.

[alanjjohnstone]

Another entertainment personality calls for revolution. Or is it to hype up attendance to the movie?…(oh that cynic inside me, so hard to dismiss) http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/nov/19/donald-sutherland-hunger-games-catching-fire Donald Sutherland wants to stir revolt. A real revolt. A youth-led uprising against injustice that will overturn the US as we know it and usher in a kinder, better way. "I hope that they will take action because it's getting drastic in this country." Drone strikes. Corporate tax dodging. Racism.The Keystone oil pipeline. Denying food stamps to "starving Americans". It's all going to pot. "It's not right. It's not right." Millennials need awakening from slumber. "You know the young people of this society have not moved in the last 30 years." With the exception of Occupy, a minority movement, passivity reigns. "They have been consumed with telephones." The voice hardens. "Tweeting." The Canadian actor has a venerable record of leftwing activism dating back to support for the Black Panthers and opposition to the Vietnam war, but this latest foray into subversion dovetails with promoting The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, the second instalment in a series of four films based on Suzanne Collins's bestselling novels for young adults. It takes forward the story of Katniss, played by Jennifer Lawrence, who must fight other oppressed proles to the death as part of a tyrannical government's strategy of rule through fear. The dystopia, called Panem, is built on the ashes of the US, and Sutherland wants young audiences to respond to the allegory. "Hopefully they will see this film and the next film and the next film and then maybe organise. Stand up."…  Few stars could get away with that spiel, probably not even fellow liberal contemporaries such as Warren Beatty or Robert Redford. Sutherland, however, manages to sound sincere….His own generation's rebelliousness lapsed into bumper sticker slogans and today's young are too fretful about finding jobs to change society, he laments. "I just think they're not organised. It's not something that's happening in the universities, which is normally the breeding ground for that kind of activity." Does he despair of the young? The famous drooping, pale blue eyes widen. "No, no, no. Otherwise there would be no point making this film. I have great hope and faith in them. I know because I talk to my children." 

[alanjjohnstone]

Meanwhile –  Morrissey has given his public support of Russell Brand's call to abstain from voting in rebellion against the 'broken political system'. The singer said he agreed with the comedian that "the most powerful vote you can give is No Vote". In a 2,000 word tirade [ tirade?ajj] ranging from the monarchy to Sarah Palin, the singer said: “Thank you to Russell Brand for standing up and speaking out in recent weeks. “Like Russell, I believe that the most powerful vote you can give is No Vote; for the days of Prime Ministers have gone, and it's time for a form of change that is far more meaningful than simply switching blue to red.” http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/morrissey-backs-russell-brands-no-vote-call-in-tirade-against-british-establishment-8949902.html

[admice]

It's coming. You would not believe the variety of people who talk to me of socialism and revolt. I think they'll think I'm fringe radical. Heck no, they're right there along with me.

[Ozymandias]

I enjoyed both the first Hunger Games movie and also the recent "Elysium" film. I love Sci Fi anyway. Obviously these films don't go far enough for us as Socialists but what I did like was that I had never really seen the Capitalist Class portrayed like that before. Sutherland is right about the youth, they are thick as shit like the vast majority of the proles but imagine what might happen when they begin to realise that they could become part of the greatest Sci Fact fantasy of all time when it's time up for Capitalism. Such an adventure would be a greater thrill than any movie or video game ever made because it will be tangible and real with all of humanity playing their part. It will either end up in Socialism or global nuclear war. I just think it will be a supremely dangerous time for our species. 

[LBird]

Ozymandias wrote:

…right about the youth, they are thick as shit like the vast majority of the proles…

Quite frankly, I don't think that 'the youth' are any 'thicker' than many bourgeois professors and other academics. Have you ever talked to 'academics' (or PhD students) about anything removed even fractionally from their extremely narrow 'speciality'? In fact, I'd go further: even within their speciality, they often don't have a clue beyond what they've been taught to think.Nah, give me 'the youth' anytime. At least they've got potential, given the ever harsher circumstances within which they are being forced to survive.Oh yeah, and while we're here, Oz… I'm a fuckin' 'prole'…

[Brian]

LBird wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:

…right about the youth, they are thick as shit like the vast majority of the proles…

Quite frankly, I don't think that 'the youth' are any 'thicker' than many bourgeois professors and other academics. Have you ever talked to 'academics' (or PhD students) about anything removed even fractionally from their extremely narrow 'speciality'? In fact, I'd go further: even within their speciality, they often don't have a clue beyond what they've been taught to think.Nah, give me 'the youth' anytime. At least they've got potential, given the ever harsher circumstances within which they are being forced to survive.Oh yeah, and while we're here, Oz… I'm a fuckin' 'prole'…

Could you please clarify what exactly you mean by "potential"? The youth always have had potential to criticise capitalism  "… … given the ever harsher circumstances within which they are being forced to survive."But they – like their elders – rarely if ever take the necessary step to condemn the effect of dehumanisation  which wage slavery imposes on our relationships with one another and our creativity.  By default the youth fail miserably to motivate themselves to challenge a political system based on the minority ownership of the means of living.  And all Brand et al are doing in this respect is challenging the political process  and not the political system in its entirety.Indeed, these malcontents passively accept the reproduction of capital and their own labour power whatever the circumstances they happen to be in. 

[Ozymandias]

Yes I'm a prole too. We all are. I just find it difficult to conceal my hatred. I know I'm not the only ex member (or member for that matter) who harbours a secret loathing of our class. At least I admit it. Growing up all I heard was utter contempt and loathing from party members towards the working class. Sneering and patronising was the order of the day at branch meetings and public meetings. It was relentless. These guys hated their fellow proles and very often each other. It's the old ego that gets in the way with us humans.Supercilious members would cast themselves as natural leaders at branch meetings whilst the passive ones would sit at the back saying little or nothing. In social situations members would be so used to congregating amongst other party members that mere dullards outside of the SPGB would all be regarded in the same way…as fuckin idiots. Unenlightened women were regarded even more poorly than their male counterparts. I don't blame any of these members for such attitudes. A few of them ended up in hospital after having been physically attacked by workers who presumably were themselves on the receiving end of some arrogant lecture about the party case. Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.This is why I'll never rejoin the party…partly because I detest workers and partly because of the chauvinism and arrogance I've witnessed. Why do I even bother checking into this forum every day? I guess because the WSM bug got me early on in my life. Many a time I've wished I was just like the vast majority of my fellow proles out there…totally ignorant and unknowing. Seeing life through the SPGB lens is a strange kind of curse which can result in utter frustration at the mass stupidity of workers everywhere. This frustration sometimes manifests itself as hatred. It's a bit of a mindfuckness because whilst 99% of me feels that (even though I hate the cunt) Lenin might have got at least one thing right when he spoke about workers only ever being able to achieve "trades unions-consciousness", there is still 1% of me that holds a wee peep of hope. The fact is today many workers cannot even achieve "Trades Unions Consciousness" never mind class consciousness. On the subject of Trades Unions I've heard people I work with say shit like "I hated Thatcher, but at least she was tough on the Unions" or "This Welfare State situation is really getting out of hand. We'll have to cut it back". Etc etc. Tough anti union/welfare policies are vote winners now. Stupid bastards. The same kind of stupid bastards who were pontificating what they thought the "Fissical Policy" was all about at the beginning of Noonan's classic novel. As far as I'm concerned a peaceful transition to a global socialist society in anyone's lifetime is about as likely as a miracle like an alien visitation happening. I just have serious doubts that workers from every country on earth can pole vault their minds and successfully negotiate such a Herculean task without the planet plunging into self destruct. The 1% flicker of hope is what brings me onto this forum day after day. Its like an oasis of calm and reason for me in a world of cretins. Don't be angry with me please. Rather pity me. 

[LBird]

Brian wrote:

Could you please clarify what exactly you mean by "potential"?

The potential to become Communists.

Brian wrote:

The youth always have had potential to criticise capitalism…

No, until this generation, 'youth' has always been better off than its parents.

Brian wrote:

Indeed, these malcontents passively accept the reproduction of capital and their own labour power whatever the circumstances they happen to be in.

That's why it's only 'potential'.The question is, 'will passive acceptance continue, whatever the circumstances?'.If we Communists continue to offer an alternative, perhaps 'youth' will 'actively choose' to prevent the 'reproduction of capital'.Perhaps they'll flock to 'the colours' and the queen, when the Chinese War begins. Perhaps Marx was wrong. Perhaps the tories are right, and most people (young and old) are thick.On balance, I think I'll stick with 'youth potential'. Beats relying on academics.

[LBird]

Ozymandias wrote:

…there is still 1% of me that holds a wee peep of hope.

The '1% seed' will blossom, in the right soil, watered by circumstance, comrade!

Ozymandias wrote:

Don't be angry with me please. Rather pity me.

I'm not angry, you've already got the '1% seed', which is more than most, so far.I'd prefer to hope with you, than to pity.

[Anonymous]

Brian wrote:

And all Brand et al are doing in this respect is challenging the political process  and not the political system in its entirety. 

 One thing Brand has made clear is that he wants to see an end to the politlic system: "..imagining the overthrow of the current political system is the only way I can be enthused about politics." Russell Brand Let's not be too  ready to condem any public figure who approaches the socialist case, just because in the past we have been correct.  

[Brian]

Thanks for that and I stand corrected.

[Brian]

LBird wrote:

The question is, 'will passive acceptance continue, whatever the circumstances?'.If we Communists continue to offer an alternative, perhaps 'youth' will 'actively choose' to prevent the 'reproduction of capital'.

It depends on how "passive acceptance" is defined.  For instance in my book the term can also cover reformism.  On the other hand seeking a particular reform does not necessarily mean the individual accepting the status quo in all circumstances, especially when it contains a class interest which includes becoming aware of the pitfalls. Oops I forgot in your book 'individual' is prescribed.

[Author]

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