Argentina: the crisis is hitting the workers

May 2024 Forums General discussion Argentina: the crisis is hitting the workers

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  • #247683
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/DiTellaetal2013.pdf. Argentina exceptionalism, the title sounds like the American exceptionalism
    papers/rise-and-fall-argentina. The Rise and fall of Argentina

    https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/259447/1/1726537706.pdf

    https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/argentina-south-american-power-struggles-stability

    Several writers have  mistakenly used the concept of first world , in reality, the first world was the USA, the second world was the Soviet Union, and the third world were the countries that were not aligned with the USA or the Soviet Union, but Cuba was part of that conglomerate and they were aligned with the Soviet Union,  
    The Maoists changed it  when Mao Tse Tung created the three world theory, and the first world was the USA, and the soviet union, and the second world were Japan, Germany, France and England, and the third world was Africa, Asia and Latin America. Those divisions are useless, the real world is capitalism

    #247693
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Somebody writing in today’s Times says:

    “In 1913, Argentina was richer than France or Germany, and had about 75 per cent of US’s GDP per capita.”

    I take it that “richer” means a higher “GDP per capita” and resulted from Argentina not having a large peasant population which didn’t contribute much to GDP but increased the number of people by which is was divided.

    The article, by free marketeer Ryan Bourne of the Cato Institute, refers to Milei’s “uncompromising anarcho-capitalism” but endorses his proposal to “dollarise” the Argentine currency.

    #247750
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    They had a large population of industrial skilled workers that emigrated from Europe, it is different to the case of Mexico which had a large population of peasants and agricultural workers, basically the so called Zapatas revolution was an agrarian revolt for land reforms

    #247761
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    https://apnews.com/article/argentina-election-milei-massa-vote-bullrich-cead0d423f2e51444b48770af618940b

    Economy minister surprises by beating populist in first round of Argentina’s presidential election

    BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — Economy Minister Sergio Massa surprised Sunday night by finishing on top in the first round of Argentina’s presidential election, reflecting voters’ wariness about handing the presidency to his chief rival, a right-wing populist who upended national politics and pledged to drastically diminish the state.

    Massa’s victory over Javier Milei, a chainsaw-wielding economist and freshman lawmaker, came despite the fact that on his watch inflation has surged into triple digits, eating away at purchasing power of salaries and boosting poverty. Still, he wasn’t punished.

    With 98.3% of the votes counted, Massa had 36.7% and Milei was at 30%, meaning the two will go to a November runoff. Most pre-election polls, which have been notoriously unreliable, gave Milei a slight lead and put Massa in second place. Former Security Minister Patricia Bullrich, of the main center-right opposition coalition, finished in third place with 23.8%.

    #247769
    ALB
    Keymaster

    So that loud mouthed populist didn’t come first as expected in the first round of the presidential elections. It seems that not enough workers there were that desperate as to vote for someone who wants a free market in body parts. He can still win, though, as him and the devil they know, the Peronist candidate, will now face each other in the second round in three weeks time.

    #247789
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So that loud mouthed populist didn’t come first as expected in the first round of the presidential elections. It seems that not enough workers there were that desperate as to vote for someone who wants a free market in body parts. He can still win, though, as him and the devil they know, the Peronist candidate, will now face each other in the second round in three weeks time.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Probably you are right, looking at the results at the Congress, the right wing group that lost might flip over and vote for him, all of them are eggs from the same bird, but nobody knows, in capitalist politics anything can take place, but there was a group that flipped over for the peronists

    https://buenosairesherald.com/politics/elections/argentina-2023-elections-what-congress-will-look-like-from-december-10.  

    What congress will like from December 10

    Argentina 2023 elections: who did the provinces vote for?

    Who did the province vote for. 

    In the Congress the difference between the Peronists and the Anarchist Capitalists is not too big
    https://es.internationalism.org/content/4790/argentina-el-peronismo-un-arma-de-la-burguesia-contra-la-clase-obrera-parte-i.

    This is a very history about Peronism, but there is not any translation yet, but it shows that there are not any essential difference between both sides
    https://es.internationalism.org/content/4959/con-peron-en-el-exilio-o-encumbrado-en-el-gobierno-el-peronismo-golpea-al-proletariado

    #247792
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I hadn’t realised that voting was compulsory in Argentina. That means that, if you are dissatisfied with the conventional parties, you can’t just abstain but have to vote for some other candidate or party, however odd. That might explain why do many voted for an obvious nutcase like Milei. Workers who voted for him wouldn’t necessarily be agreeing with his weird “anarcho-capitalist” ideas but because this was the next best thing to abstaining. If so, that’s a relief.

    Having said that, I take it casting a blank vote is still legal? Otherwise what could a socialist in Argentina legally do on election day?

    #247793
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    In Chile is mandatory to vote but during the last election many ‘socialists’, leftists or ‘anarchists who did not agree with any one of the candidates they voted with a blank vote. Practically is absentism

    https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6ac753c.html

    #247795
    ZJW
    Participant

    Figures from the Spanish-language Wikipedia on turnout etc figures for the recent presidential election in Argentina:

    Participación — 77.65 % [down] 3.7 %
    Votos válidos — 26 291 718
    Votos en blanco — 554 161
    Votos nulos — 224 864

    If the turnout was only 75%, how is the ‘mandatory’ character of voting in Argentina to be explained? That it is not enforced, i.e. non-voting is not fined or otherwise penalised (as is claimed to be the case in, say, Australia)?

    #247796
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    That so called compulsory law is not so strict and many peoples find way to avoid it, and also the law provides certain provisions that allow peoples not to vote, even more, in some countries in Europe the law is not so strict either and many peoples do not vote.

    It was 74% of the electoral roll at 6;OO PM which is the closing time, other reports are showing 77.7% .

    During the Pandemic the participation was 68% , and in prior elections it has been higher

    Some countries that do not have a compulsory law the participation is higher

    https://buenosairesherald.com/politics/argentina-2023-elections-29-6-of-electoral-roll-had-voted-by-12-p-mArgentina 2023 elections:

    The statistic does not count the vote made in overseas embassy

    Voting as a foreigner in Argentina: what you need to know

    #247800
    ALB
    Keymaster

    The answer seems to to be that voting is not compulsory for everybody but only for those aged between 18 and 70 and then with exceptions

    “Voting is compulsory between 18 and 70 years old, with some exceptions (illness and long distance from polling stations); penalties for abstention consist of a fine (between 50 and 500 Argentine pesos) and prohibition to hold public office or employment for three years from the election.”
    (https://web.archive.org/web/20131031040409/http://www.ipu.org/parline-e/reports/2011_B.htm)

    So, voting is not compulsory for those aged 16 and 17 (they have the vote) and for the over-70s.

    With the raging inflation there 500 pesos can’t be much — just over a £ – a small price to pay for abstaining from voting for some pro-capitalist candidate.

    Voting in Belgium is also compulsory but only for Belgian citizens. EU nationals had the vote in local elections but weren’t legally obliged to vote. I voted once but couldn’t write “socialisme mondial” or “wereld socialisme” across my ballot paper as it was machine voting. The machine provided for people to cast a blank vote, so I voted “blanc”.

    #247801
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Argentina has a large population of elderly people and they do not have to vote The penalty for no voting only cost a few pennies
    https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6ac753c.html

    https://www.idea.int/data-tools/data/voter-turnout-database/compulsory-voting

    #247815
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So, voting is not compulsory for those aged 16 and 17 (they have the vote) and for the over-70s.

    With the raging inflation there 500 pesos can’t be much — just over a £ – a small price to pay for abstaining from voting for some pro-capitalist candidate.
    ————————————————————————————————————–

    This is correct and the 500.00 pesos fine is for multiples violation. All are pro capitalist candidates, it does not make any different if they are Peronists, Socialists, leftists or Anarco capitalists, it is a dead end, therefore, citizen with certain political consciousness will never vote for anyone of them, or just vote blank . In Chile there was a coalition of socialists and communists and many citizen including leftists voted blank

    PS The socialists and communists in Chile are known as renovated, but they are Kruschevites in disguise. The new president of Colombia was more honest than Lenin, at the inauguration he said that he was going to develop Colombian capitalism, and he was a guerrilla fighter, like the ex-president of Brasil

    #247990
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Bullrich to endorse Milei in run-off: ‘We decided to forgive each other’

    Patricia Bullrich and Luis Petri will back Milei’s presidential campaign on a personal level, they announced at a press conference Wednesday morning, immediately following an urgent meeting of the PRO party leadership.

    In response to a question from the Herald, Bullrich said that she and the libertarian economist have decided to “forgive each other.”

    “Yesterday I had a meeting with Javier Milei where we had a conversation in private about those statements, and we forgave each other mutually,” she told the Herald. “We think that today, our homeland needs us to be capable of forgiving each other, because what’s at stake is very important. It was in private, a chat between the two of us, and I think it’s right for us to keep it private, but it was an apology that I think was sincere.”

    The libertarian firebrand had previously accused Bullrich of being a guerrilla member and planting a bomb in a kindergarten, prompting her to file a criminal complaint. Milei did not apologize for the comments in a subsequent interview, even when asked directly.

    Among the reasons for her decision, Bullrich added that “if Kirchnerism wins, JxC will be completely dissolved.”

    #247991
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/argentinas-place-presidential-candidate-bullrich-endorses-wing-populist-104285699
    Argentina’s third-place presidential candidate Bullrich endorses right-wing populist Milei in runoff
    Former Argentine presidential candidate Patricia Bullrich has endorsed right-wing populist Javier Milei for next month’s runoff
    ByDANIEL POLITI Associated Press
    October 25, 2023, 9:45 AM

    https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ogbl#inbox/FMfcgzGwHLrrhVPNVllfWppjmrCTRFlf
    A voter casts her ballot during general elections in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Sunday, Oct. 22, 2023. (AP Photo/Gustavo Garello)

    BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — Former Argentine presidential candidate Patricia Bullrich, who placed third in Sunday’s election, endorsed right-wing populist Javier Milei on Wednesday for next month’s runoff, a move that could rupture the country’s main center-right opposition coalition.

    Bullrich, a former security minister, received 24% of the vote, compared to 37% for Economy Minister Sergio Massa and 30% for Milei.

    “In the case of Javier Milei, we have differences, and that’s why we competed. We don’t overlook them. However, we are faced with the dilemma of change or the continuation of a mafia-style governance for Argentina and putting an end to the shame of the present. We have the obligation not to remain neutral,” Bullrich told a news conference.

    “The country needs a fundamental change,” Bullrich added, warning against a “continuation of the worst government in history.”

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