Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitic
- This topic has 823 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 4 days, 7 hours ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Looks as if Iran has responded to the SWP’s call to “Smash Israel”.
But, seriously, the real conflict of economic interests in the Middle East — over who shall control the oil and the trade routes there — may be breaking out into real war, to which Israel’s war of savage revenge on Hamas and the population of Gaza has only been a horrific side-show. This even as far as the US is concerned as Israel’s actions there threatened to undermine the real reason it defends Israel — as its boots on the grounds and planes in the air to defend its economic interests in the region.
It’s an application of the Carter Doctrine proclaimed by President Carter in 1980 (and implemented on a number of previous occasions since):
“Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.”
Wonder if the great brains in the SWP have thought through the consequences of “smashing Israel” when Israel has a government heavily populated with religious fanatics that also has access to nuclear weapons?
I thought capitalist economics produced war, not religion or ideology.
I think we all know too that no Middle Eastern state can “smash Israel.”Ideology and religion develop and adapt to meet the needs of the ruling class, that doesn’t preclude the possibility that some of those governing the capitalist state might believe some of the horseshit they’ve created.
No doubt some of those who create fetish objects to be venerated will also believe in the power of their fetish objects, despite the fact that they created them
But these elements of the superstructure do not force states into war. They do, however, serve to hoodwink the workers into taking part.
The second world war had nothing to do with Nazi ideology, although Nazi ideology served German capitalism’s purposes at the time. Hitler was instructed to eliminate the most fanatical believers in Nazi ideology, which he did, because they were an obstacle to the state’s requirements. However, once the war had broken out (for economic reasons), it facilitated the Holocaust, which catered both to ideology and to profit (the exploitation of prisoners for slave labour).
But ideology does not CAUSE war. The most it does is facilitate the atrocities war produces.I’m not saying that ideology causes war. I’m saying that it is feasible that if the SWP’s desired outcome, of the destruction of Israel as a nation state, was about to take place, there’s a pretty high chance that, if the ultra religious elements within the government had the power to do it, they would set off their nuclear bombs.
Russia could get drawn in.
Talk of smashing any country means supporting the mass murder of fellow workers.
“He who celebrates victory rejoices in killing.” (Lao Tsu).
So those Trotskyists are no different from the Stalinists who support war in Ukraine.
Warning ⚠️ distressing language
Benn talks about the UN the last war, the war to end all wars. The biggest lie in history.
Would this be deemed antisemitic?
I probably haven’t read every comment in this thread. We know that Anti-Zionism is not (necessarily) anti-Semitic. But has there been much mention or discussion of anti-semitic Zionism? This explains right-wing evangelical Christian support for Zionism, for example.
The fallout in the US is the banning of TikTok. Overwhelming evidence that it is because it has turned young Americans against Isreal and the War in Gaza.
I tweeted about how the Party was banned from publishing the Socialist Standard during the war.
A summary here:They wanted to ban TikTok way before the current Israeli assault on Gaza started. It’s because of geo-political rivalry with China.
The Standard wasn’t banned from publishing in the wars years was it? I think some article were redacted though?
I don’t know how interested other people are in listening to this kind of thing, but this podcast episode seems like a good summary of Hannah Arendts ‘The Banality of Evil’. One of the themes of this book, which doesn’t get taught often, is the two-way compliance between Zionists and anti-semites during the holocaust.
This article by Hugo Rifkind well describes the situation between “secular Jews” and the religious Jews represented by the Board of Jewish Deputies (who led the campaign to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn and are now gunning for the London police chief).
The person at the centre of the controversy turns out not to have been a Jewish person returning from a synagogue but the leader of the “Campaign against Anti-Semitism” who set out to provoke an incident and did so probably even beyond his own expectations.
Ban the marches & Jews will get the blame
“For all the tin-eared idiocy of the Met, antisemitism is not a policing problem. It is a social one. Notice it, worry about it, counter it… have a care, all the while, not to make it worse” @hugorifkindhttps://t.co/BcBK5xZ5Mp
— Rupert Myers (@RupertMyers) April 23, 2024
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.