[jondwhite]

Incidentally, there was a 'World Socialist Party of Canada' distinct from the companion party the 'Socialist Party of Canada' but with the same politics in 1968 I think.

[jondwhite]

ALB wrote:

gnome wrote:

To the best of my knowledge the SPGB has never taken advice from non-members and hopefully never will.

I don't think this is true as we have sought outside advice on occasions, e.g legal opinion. What has never happened is non-members taking part in any vote. In this particular case we have two non-members, even potential members, putting forward arguments that are held by some members. So, their arguments need to be addressed anyway, but shouldn't our advice to them, then, not be "mind your own business" but "why not join and have a vote in what we decide?"

Actually George Walford observed this attitude in some members in 1984

Quote:

I have had members tell me this directly. They have said, almost in these words: ‘We know these people have not understood the case because if they had understood it they would have accepted it.’As you can imagine, it takes a good deal to leave me speechless. But that did, the first time I heard it. The blind, unthinking conceit of that answer! If you disagree with the Socialist Party that shows you don’t understand them. They have nothing to learn from anybody. There is no possibility of anybody knowing more than they do and no possibility of them being wrong. They hold the Truth, the whole Truth and the perfect Truth. The only thing the rest of us can do is sit at their holy feet and hope some of their pearls of wisdom will drop into our hungry little mouths.

http://gwiep.net/wp/?p=387As a member myself, I don't regard it as the correct approach. To state the blindingly obvious, Marx himself was not a member yet we learn from him and yes some of Marx's writings were first published AFTER the formation of the SPGB. And no, the answer is not just to 'support whatever the working-class do' OR 'join us' (although the latter would be good) but to meaningfully learn from the class. Open primaries for SPGB committees (in the US, the two main parties register their supporters or anyone who wishes to be registered) would be a good way to demonstrate the SPGB acting in the interests of and accountable to the working-class whilst maintaining the no compromise principle. The SPGB ought not to be partyist in the way the Anarchist bookfair think all parties are. The party does not supplant society.

[jondwhite]

Probably not as far as certain people might like to think. Certainly it is within the realm of imagination that the 'parliamentary' smear of the SPGB could be removed at a swipe with the outlawing of the SPGB. Remember this from a couple of years ago?http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jul/31/westminster-police-anarchist-whistleblower-adviceStill probably wouldn't be allowed a stall at the Anarchist bookfair as it would no longer exist. I'd still be annoyed if we were denied a stall at an underground illegal anarchist bookfair.

[jondwhite]

Young Master Smeet wrote:

Indeed, because we're not abstract propagandists, we should be talking where more effective, and the route to socialism lies through the millions of voters who support labour, not through those who would undermine our class position by campaigning against voting and who support noxious authoritarian views like anarchism.  And, yes, I do mean authoritarian.  Anarchism is not the opposite of power politics, it's its jealous kid brother, that just wants to spread the lawless anarchism kings and despots have enjoyed throughout the ages to ever smaller kingdoms.  Just look at what happened when the anarchist Lenin got somewhere. 

There are about 50,000 members of the Labour party and around 8-9 million votes cast for Labour at general elections (open to correction on this). I'm happy to target Labour voters but the SPGB is big enough to target both Labour and Anarchist and yes, also there are many differences between the SPGB and various Anarchist groups.

[jondwhite]

Young Master Smeet wrote:

Good.  Why the hell were we asking?  We're not Anarchists.  Not disappointed at all.

Because we're not abstract propagandists content with talking to ourselves and mutually backpatting the converted. We live in society as it is currently, where most workers are not socialists or opposed to socialism. You can regard different currents as close to the SPGB or far from the SPGB. No matter which, our job is making socialists. A party speaker, party stall or a party branch represents the party in hostility to all other political parties whether in a party meeting, another party's meeting or another party's event.

[jondwhite]

hear hear.I like Steve Bell's though.

[jondwhite]

Clause 7 of the declaration of principles states 'all political parties are but the expression of class interests, and as the interest of the working class is diametrically opposed to the interests of all sections of the master class, the party seeking working class emancipation must be hostile to every other party.'So if anyone shares our object and principles then why are they a separate organisation? What class interests do they express?

[jondwhite]

Perhaps you could show them how its done.

[jondwhite]

new podcast episode last weekhttp://internationalsocialistnetwork.org/index.php/downloads/474-letters-from-domestic-extremists-podcast-9and episode 8 from junehttp://internationalsocialistnetwork.org/index.php/downloads/454-letters-from-domestic-extremists-podcast-8and episode 7 from aprilhttp://internationalsocialistnetwork.org/index.php/downloads/386-letters-from-domestic-extremists-podcast-7

[jondwhite]

I think I need a bigger screen

[jondwhite]

I think describing it as more a series of anecdotes than a history does it an injustice. Some members appreciate it more than others. In any case, readers can now judge for themselves at no cost.

[jondwhite]

ALB wrote:

Not sure about that. If we want to go down that road it would have to be 'Neither Edinburgh nor London' since we haven't got anything against the elected assemblies as such that sit in Holyrood or Westminster (have we?).

I would have thought so, yes.

[jondwhite]

For free distribution to those already interested? This could just as easily be done on libcom. Or to interest those new to the party? Cause in the case of the latter there's 2 used copies for £20 on Amazon and for more new reprinted copies one might as well do print-on-demand as much as epub.

[jondwhite]

The workers have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got. Since the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the nation, it is, so far, itself national, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.As the communist manifesto puts it

[jondwhite]

necroposting but monument is now available herehttps://libcom.org/library/monument-story-socialist-party-great-britain

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