Bijou Drains
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Btw, i’ve relayed, Bijou, your vulgar retort to the beautiful quote of Anatole France to my friends as an example of my Marxist forum experience when the subject is nonhuman animals.
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Which translates as “I’ve told the teacher on you!”.
I think you would find you had better responses to your point of view if you tried a less sanctimonious, holier than thou and humourless approach to your postings. As my mother used to say, “you’ll catch more flies with sugar than you will with vinegar, son”
“When Barrington got round to the back of the platform, he found the man with the scarred face standing alone and gloomily silent in the shadow. Barrington gave him one of the Socialist leaflets, which he took, and after glancing at it, put it in his coat pocket without making any remark.
‘I hope you’ll excuse me for asking, but were you not formerly a Socialist?’ said Barrington.
Even in the semi-darkness Barrington saw the other man flush deeply and then become very pale, and the unsightly scar upon his forehead showed with ghastly distinctiveness.
‘I am still a Socialist: no man who has once been a Socialist can ever cease to be one.’
‘You seem to have accomplished that impossibility, to judge by the work you are at present engaged in. You must have changed your opinions since you were here last.’
‘No one who has been a Socialist can ever cease to be one. It is impossible for a man who has once acquired knowledge ever to relinquish it. A Socialist is one who understands the causes of the misery and degradation we see all around us; who knows the only remedy, and knows that that remedy–the state of society that will be called Socialism–must eventually be adopted; is the only alternative to the extermination of the majority of the working people; but it does not follow that everyone who has sense enough to acquire that amount of knowledge, must, in addition, be willing to sacrifice himself in order to help to bring that state of society into being.”
The best way of dealing with Ferguson is to point people in the direction of any of the nonsense he has been spewing forth for the last 20 years or so.
It’s a real task to try and find a predicition of his that turned out to be correct, a response to criticism that doesn’t expose his naked egoism, a business venture he has been involved in that has been successful, a book or documentary of his that hasn’t been roundly criticised, etc.
He’s the man who predicted that John McCain and Mitt Romney would be president and that in the case of Trump – “If you bother to read some of the serious analysis of Trump’s support, you realize that it’s a very fragile thing and highly unlikely to deliver what he needs in the crucial first phase of the primaries … By the time we get to March–April, it’s all over. I think there’s going to be a wonderful catharsis, I’m really looking forward to it: Trump’s humiliation. Bring it on.”
Three weeks before the 2016 election Ferguson stated in an interview that it “was over for Donald Trump”; that “Trump had flamed out in all three Presidential debates”; that, “I don’t think there can be any last minute surprise to rescue him [Trump]”; that there was no hope of Donald Trump winning Independent voters and that Trump was “gone as a candidate”, adding that “it seems to me clear that she [Hillary Clinton] is going to be the first female President of the United States.”
I think it’s fair to say that Nostradamus is not looking over his shoulder with a worried expression.
The fact that with his track record he has predicited that Socialism Doesn’t Work, should be treated as a huge boost to the Socialist Movement.
And if Billy Smart was looking to recruit another clown, I think our friend Niall would be pretty high up on his wish list.
Bijou, attempting to trivialise other people’s feelings?
Not worthy of a socialist.
I would tell you to go and stick your head up a dead bear’s arse, but I presume that would breach your moralising, self developed code of socialist behaviour, so I won’t tell you to go and stick your head up a dead bear’s arse. So just to be absolutely clear I am definitely not telling you to go and stick your head up a dead bear’s arse.
“Until one has loved an animal a part of one’s soul remains unawakened.”
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Yes, I’ve had a few clients with that particular problem as well. One was known by the nickname “porky” locally, and it wasn’t because he was fat! 🙁
Going back to our friends in the slaughterhouse, perhaps they could be examples of one of Freud’s ego defence mechanisms – Sublimation – the unwitting substitution of a partial satisfaction with social approval for the pursuit of a direct satisfaction which would be contrary to one’s ideals or to the judgment of social censors and other important people who surround one.
Basically unconsciously stopping doing a socially unacceptable thing and replacing it with a similar, but socially useful thing. So for instance an arsonist becomes a fireman, a thief becomes a security advisor, a pervert becomes a gyneacoligist, an argumentative social outcast becomes a Trostskyist.
Freud apparently got the idea after reading about Johann Friedrich Dieffenbach a famous German surgeon who as a boy allegedly enjoyed cutting the tails off dogs.
Mutual Aid
“Pointing out that Manson was a vegetarian, I see … supposed to clinch any argument, this type of thing. Getting tired, people, of stressing Hitler as the typical veggie?”
The point I was making contrary to “all the documentaries you have ever seen evidence” is that not all serial killers begin by hurting animals, however it is quite a common trait. Similarly not all people who hurt animals are serial killers,
Or put more simply “Not all vegans are nice and not all carnivors are nasty”
To become a serial killer, it is a series of escalating steps and it does appear that cruelty to animals is one of the early stages and child psychologists recognise the risk and can intervene to stop the progression. I’m sure Bijou is better qualified to explain it.
Serial Killer is a bit of a misnomer, apparently the term preferred by those who work in the field is Multiple Killers, a late very good friend of mine was a Forensic Psychologist and he once said to me “that’s the problem you see, some of the bastards kill a lot of people all at once.”
It is not always the case that multiple killers always follow the same trajectory, for instance the Yorkshire Ripper didn’t. A few multiple killers have schizophrenia and in this case the animal cruelty is not as prominent a factor.
Cruelty to animals appears to be a common symptom rather than a causation for those who have anti social personality disorder. The development of ASPD is strongly linked with poor early years care, abusive early relationships and poor attachment patterns.
Animal cruelty is a very worrying behaviour in children, however it does not follow that all children who are cruel to animals will become serial killers. I have worked with children who have been cruel to animals and who have gone on to be able to develop empathy and care. I have also worked with kids who have hurt animals because although chronologically developed, they have not develped cognitively at the same rate. I vividly rememebre working with a child who killed a duck with a brick but then was distraught because the duck wouldn’t get up. He was still at the stage of development that he had not worked out what was an animate object and what was inanimate.
“Polish serial killer obsessed by slaughterhouses. Every serial killer I have seen a documentary on began by committing atrocities on fellow animals.”
Yes all of the respected research bodies recognise “every documentary I have seen” as the gold standard when it comes to research. In research terms it has the highest accolades and respect alongside other high standard research methods such as “I met a bloke in the pub” and “my brother in law knows somebody who…”
You might find the following quote interesting:
“I knew a guy that used to work in the stockyards and he used to kill cows all day long with a big sledgehammer, and then go home at night and eat dinner with his children and eat the meat that he slaughtered. Then he would go to church and read the bible, and he would say, ‘That is not killing.’ And I look at him and I say, ‘That doesn’t make any sense, what you are talking about?’
“Then I look at the beast, and I say, ‘Who is the beast?’Charles Manson – reported vegetarian and convicted serial killer
There was an earlier one than Tony Benn:
A Forecast of the Coming Revolution: Interview with Paul Lafargue
“Meat and dairy produce: symbols of male power, sexual dominance and racial discrimination, 1997”
That has to get the prize for the most contrived and ridiculous title for in the last fifty years. Which soppy git wrote that?
The point being, that the degrading of nonhumans to property naturally degraded humans to property too. The concept of rule is born.
I think the link you make is exaggerated and unproven, you use the example of Norman French and Latin as linguistic proof, yet civilisations developed property and developed the concept of rule before either of those languages was used and in parts of the world far from the development of those languages.
you say – “Adam Smith noted that along with <i>crops</i>, herds of animals were the earliest form of private property”
Which supports my argument that if humans were non carnivorous they would have still grown crops and the concept of property would have still developed. Your overall theory that the domestication of animals was the root cause of the alienation of humans from nature and the source of the development of private property is at best tenuous and at worst complete bollocks.
Even if your theory was true, the development of propertied societies was a positive development in terms of the development of the means to create a Socialist society. Meat eaters can therefore be thanked for the positive impact they have had in the development of the means of production to the point where a socialist society is possible, let’s have a big round of applause for the meat eaters!!!!
He was interviewed on BBC 5 Live in the last week or so. Some interesting ideas, not quite there yet, but at least he countered some of the human nature arguments.
Not about eating meat, which was done in prehistory too (with humans being more scavengers than hunters, btw), but about the concept of ownership, of property, which livestock were.
As presumably were the fields in which the grain was grown and the vegetables which were harvested. As to the use of the word Chatell having any impact on this, it was derives from old Norman French, which developed many, many years after the agrarian revolution.
Ah, so its our old opponent D R Steele – another ex member – who Stuart invokes in support of his new found moderate bourgeois liberalism no doubt with an eye to the new kind of moderate bourgeois liberal readership he is writing for.
And may I suggest an eye to the kind of moderate bourgeois liberal salary that comes with it
