Bijou Drains
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Vin wrote:Tim Kilgallon wrote:even if they do seem to have an over riding interest in matters relating to dog turds and the British Legion.
See ya ve nivva stud in dog shite for ages marra. Or yud be mare simpatheticA nar thes nee shite on yor side of the rivva
Whey man marra, aal wor dergs knaa who t'gan t'the netty.on tha airn
alanjjohnstone wrote:I unconditionally withdraw anything that could be taken as disparaging against Eileen.You are very right Vin, we should not drag anybody else into this now the matter has been settled that no-one on this thread was aware of what was taking place that the Party could have been fore-warned But what is indeed missing on this thread is ex-Comrade Colborn response, defending not his politics which Robbo may be interested in hearing but to explain the manner of his departure from the Party which now involves expelling him unless he submits his resignation. He knew the rulebook but chose to flout it. He was approached to stand locally in the recent council elections as the SPGB candidate but he failed to reply to the e-mail. That was his opportunity to do the honourable thing and declare his intentions.You may have 40 years of personal comradeship with ex-Cde Colborn, Vin. I do not. I am under no obligation to show similar restraint as yourself in regards to this embarrassing affair.Alan, I think your withdrawal is correct and appropriate and that the point you raised was unworthy of you.No one in the NERB (other than Steve and presumably Eileen) was aware of Steve's intention. I was in contact with Vin after the May Day event in Newcastle, re activity in the North East, and at that time we were both under the impression that Steve Colborn was intending to remain a member of the NERB. Whilst I accept that Steve may not have wanted to have contact with Vin, I do think he should have done the honourable thing and let the Party know of his intentions before standing for another political party.Whilst accepting Robbo's point about being on residents' committees or involved in things like school governerships, etc. I think there is a massive difference between that and taking an elected post on a council (even if it is a Parsih Council) under the banner of a registered political party, even if they do seem to have an over riding interest in matters relating to dog turds and the British Legion.
ALB wrote:It's true:Deneside Ward of Seaham ParishElectorate: 2933Ballots Issued: 775Turnout: 26.42%Rejected Ballots: 3 ALLEN, Brian (Labour) 309 BELL, Edward (Labour) 434 ELECTED BLEASDALE, Geraldine (Labour) 382 ELECTED COLBORN, Steven Paul (Seaham Community Party) 340 ELECTED DONALDSON, Michelle (Seam Community Party) 312 PAUL, James Ian (no description) 118 SOKS, Karen (Seaham Community Party) 259 TAYLOR, Barry (Seaham Community Party) 332 ELECTEDthey say that power corrupts, but bloody hell, Seaham Parish Council, it's hardly the Presidency, is it? Talk about setting your sights low!
From the Seaham Community Party Facebook site: "We want local people from all backgrounds and age groups to join us to change Seaham for the better. Seaham Community Party are really proud of our town and we would like to continue this regeneration seen at the sea front in to other areas. We will protect Seaham' heritage, Tommy, George Emily Lifeboat and The British Legion. We will reduce Seaham Town Councillors from 21 to 11, therefore saving costs to invest in our town. We will not put the council tax up by 3% like the current party. We strongly support all our local health and well being/fitness. We will save and improve Seahams' Leisure Centre and Youth Centre. We will run activities and support local families and also organise a childrens' summer holiday programme, including trips, events and sports/clubs. We will clean up our streets and parks to make them free from litter and dog mess. A zero tolerance on dog fouling. We will strive to invest and protect our allotments and open green spaces for future generations. We will continue to sup port and improve all of Seahams outdoor events such as the carnival, armed forces day and the fireworks display. We will work hard to enhance Seaham as a tourist destination by doing all that we can to further Seahams reputation as a holiday destination. COME AND JOIN US! Seaham Community Party are honest, approachable, trustworthy and reliable. Vote for us and together we will improve Seaham!"Clearly a set of reformist demands, not exactly a Revolutionary Socailist Party. Incidentally they call us impossiblists for proposing the creation of a society based on common ownership and the abolition of the wages system, the idea of making Seaham into a holiday destination is much more far fetched!!If it is the Steve Colborn of NE Branch who has been elected on this platform, he should hang his head in shame.
alanjjohnstone wrote:If this is Steve Colborn who thought was still a member of the party i am puzzled.I believe he is still a member and if he is then this is a very serious matter and openly flouting of the party rules, that can only lead to expulsion.6. A member shall not belong to any other political organisation or write or speak for any other political party except in opposition, or otherwise assist any other political party.So who are the Seaham Community Party that he now represents?If this is Cde. Colborn and he is still a member of NERB then the following rules pertain 27. Candidates elected to a Political office shall be pledged to act on the instructions of their Branches locally28. Any Branch proposing to contest elections, National, European or Local, shall first obtain permission from the Executive Committee. I hope it is just someone sharing the same name for i woud hate our first elected member to be disowned by the Party.Some clarification is clearly needed in this situation. I have sent PMs and an email to Steve in the last month, in my role as acting NE Branch Secretary and received no reply. If Steve is reading the mesage boards, an update would be appreciated, prior to any action being taken by the Party.
[/quote]My 'concrete objection' is that I'm a Democratic Communist, and so insist that only workers' democracy can determine social production.[/quoteIn a previous post you stated that you only producers democracy can determine social production, when I enquired about whether this included those who do not produce (the retired, people with disabilities, ill health etc.) you stated that what you meant was social production, which is something that all of us are involved in, which I accept is a fairly straightforward definition. You now use the term workers democracy, is this, as it implies, reducing the democratic franchise to only those who are workers, or is your idea of the democratci franchise in a socialist society non elitist and therefore inclusive of all people on the planet?And in answer to a previous post, yes I do like taking the piss, and will exercise my right to do so on occasion in the future, however on this occasion, this is a genuine, non-piss taking question and I would hope you will take it in the spirit is intended and clarify your view on this essential point for me?
ALB wrote:Here are the results for Folkestone:https://democracy.kent.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?ID=577https://democracy.kent.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?ID=547Although the percentage figures both show 1%, in Folkestone East the percentage was 1.5% and in Folkestone West 0.6%Not bad results, all considered, well done comrades.I have a feeling the charismatic, raw animal magnetism of Adam's photo will have a significant impact on our vote
alanjjohnstone wrote:I guess Vin, your attitude is, if it isn't broke why fix it but i'm not sure our propaganda model remains fit for purpose BrianG from Glasgow Br posted this several years backQuote:Rather than pay lip service to our open-ness and internal democracy we should advertise it by having a significant discussion section or element, in our main journal, the SocialistStandard. Far from being offputting, this would be attractive to new readers and sympathisers – evidence of a organisation that is alive, and of ideas that are constantly being reviewed and renewed. Why is the Weekly Worker nowadays the most influential paper on the Left? Because it hosts opendebate and discussion. Its not just a party line. But also the role of the Party isn't just to make socialists – it also needs to try and keep them also. And that means keeping members interested, which such adevelopment would help to do.As it is now agreed to have the print-run continue, let us ask what message it is we wish to convey in the Standard…and that is not as easy as Vin, implies.Any media has a target audience it wishes to reach. I don't think we are any different. When was the last time Standard sellers attended an EDL rally, for instance? Are we intending to poach members from the left-wing? Do we reach out for a "virgin" audience, is it the environmentalists, the internationalists, trade unionists… who exactly do we aim for?We can campaign blindly, after all that is what we do with a lit stall…we contact the public indiscriminately as simply random passer-bys. Is the street stall approach versatile enough to adapt?As i said, now that we decide to go for the print run for the foreseeable future…how do we make it people-friendly?
I know we have been over this several times before, Alan, but I still don't understnad what the issue is. The Standard loses roughly £500 per year, it is popular with some members and with some members of the general public. At a cost of round about £150 per edition, the recent bequest of £300,000 to the party would keep the standard running for anouther 2000 editions or anouther166 years and 8 months.The only arguments that could possible lead to the closure of the Standard areWe cannot afford to continue doing it – we clearly canThere are not enough members to continue with production – clearly not the case, or it wouldn't be producedthe time and energy of the members producing the standard would be used for other more effective activity if the standard stopped publication – highly unlikely,, there is also a high chance that the closure of the standard would impact on morale to such an extent that it would reduce activty rather than increase it.the money could be put to better use – possibly it could, but as we have a great deal of money, we could produce the standard and use a far larger amount of money elsewhere if there was the need for it.My conclusion is that the whole arguement has been a ludicrous waste of party time and effort. If the movers of he resolution couldn't even bring themselves to support it, surely that speaks volumes.As for the demise of the printed word?https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/14/ebook-sales-continue-to-fall-nielsen-survey-uk-book-salesPerhaps Private Frazer spoke to soon!
Bob Andrews wrote:I don't want to wrong anybody, so I won't go as far as to say that you are a psychiatrist, but some of your postings, in my humble judgement, are of a nature calculated to excite the liveliest suspicions.
Close, but no cigar.
gnome wrote:Members from North East Branch will be present at this eventhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/event/tyne-and-wear-mayday-rally-11amhttps://www.facebook.com/events/1278629588858822/Two Party members attended the rally (Cdes Kilgallon and Weir) the usual array of leftists and single issue campaigners were present. Socialist Standards were swapped and given away to various stall holders and debate was had with a few. Later another Standard was sold and along with two pamphlets.Members of SPEW (formerly Militiant now outside the Labour Party) and Socialist Appeal (formerly Militant now inside the Labour Party ) were there but were very obviously not on speaking terms. It was a bit like being at a party where the two sides of a particularly acrimonious divorce were present and everyone else found it a "bit awkward". From the atmosphere I would say that Spew obviously got the house and custody of the kids.Following discussion afterwards the two members felt that hiring a stall for the rally next year would be a good move and that further activity in the North East should be encouraged. Watch this space.
Prakash RP wrote:' Well actually, there is this that Dave B came across: Quote:Humanity, if it wants to be civilised through and through, must make the Principle of healthy and meaningful living its LIFE PRINCIPLEand get rid of all institutions and culture that fail to harmonise with the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living. https://hubpages.com/politics/the-RIGHT-VIEW-of-CIVILISATIONt seems to be putting the cart before the horse, i.e taking the idealist position of setting out a set of principles and then saying that society should conform to them. It is also unclear whether these principles are to be applied under capitalism as well as being the supposed basis of future socialist/communist (the same thing) society. Most of things it regards as a sin (eg.bribery, gambling, trafficking, etc) won't arise in socialism as money and the money economy will have disappeared and, also, with the end of the coercive state and the economic dependence of women on men, so will "matrimony" as the state-endorsed living together of a man and a woman. All that will be left are smoking and drinking. So, what's all the fuss about — just a cigarette and a glass of beer. What's wrong with that? ' [ comment by ALB on 27/04/2017 ] ' t seems to be putting the cart before the horse, i.e taking the idealist position of setting out a set of principles and then saying that society should conform to them. ' You want to aim to achieve your aim after having achieved it ?! My dear friend, the sane aim to achieve their aim AFTER, not before, having fixed on their aim. Playing in a FIXED game is something outright UNBECOMING to true communists, RIGHT ? ' It is also unclear whether these principles are to be applied under capitalism as well as being the supposed basis of future socialist/communist (the same thing) society. Most of things it regards as a sin (eg.bribery, gambling, trafficking, etc) won't arise in socialism as money and the money economy will have disappeared and, also, with the end of the coercive state and the economic dependence of women on men, so will "matrimony" as the state-endorsed living together of a man and a woman. ' The Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living is meant for the good of humanity, for the transformation of today's humanity into a better humanity, regardless of times it belongs to because it's meant to awaken humanity, and it happens to be the first to do this, to what I view as an eternal truth, namely, the idea that it makes sense, and becomes humanity as well, to live a healthy and meaningful life. It aims at awakening humanity to the fact that capitalism, capitalist cultures and lifestyle, economic inequality, the origin of the GREATEST and gravest social INJUSTICE, etc, etc do NOT fit in with it and the fact that it's communism, and communism alone, that can create a just and free society with an environment that harmonises with the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living. The Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living also aims at awakening humanity to the brute fact that it still happens to be way too uncivilised and enlightens it about the dos and don'ts it must adhere to if it wants to be civilised through and through. Thus, the significance of the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living in the capitalist era which we all belong to now is undeniable. And you don't seem to mean to deny this undeniable fact. You're skeptic of its usefulness in the communist era. But, sir, as we do NOT belong to the communist era, and as the organisation of the revolutionary transformation of the present-day world into the communist world order happens to be the immediate MISSION before all the communists of today, I think the most sensible thing to do right now would be to spare ourselves the debate over this point. We can leave it to be dealt with by the humanity who'd belong to the communist era, can't we ? The point over which we started debate is NOT the significance of the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living but the question of whether all those that are so pitiably insignificant as to be bereft of the calibre they need to rid themselves of their nasty addiction to drugs, drinks, smoking, matrimony, etc, i.e. all the stuff that happens NOT to have the Principle of Healthy and Meaningful Living's seal of approval, deserve to be reckoned communist. I think we'd best restrict ourselves to this point. ' … just a cigarette and a glass of beer. What's wrong with that? ' You seem to have agreed to leave the luxury of matrimony off the list of the stuff NOT in disharmony with the communist ethics and outlook. It's a welcome development. There's NO doubt about it. And as you've succeeded in conquering the allure of silly matrimony as well as travesties of matrimony, there's NO good reason you should NOT be successful at getting rid of your addiction to indulgences such as ' just a cigarette and a glass of beer. ' I endorse looking on ' a cigarette and a glass of beer ' as ' just a cigarette and a glass of beer ' and would like you to give up them right now. My dear friend, you should NOT fail, if you're a true communist, to overcome your unhealthy addictions. If you'd allow me to give you a piece of advice, I'd ask you to say to yourself that communism is a GREAT ideology, and that communists are GREAT people endowed with good sense, strong backbone, and invincible willpower and thus persuade yourself that if you're a true communist, you must prove stronger than the allure of and addiction to all unhealthy indulgences.Yeah, thanks for the advice mate, but frankly you seem a bit of a bore and I think I'll stick to the pork pies and beer.You might want to try it, judging from your posts you seem to be a bit stressed and anxious. Take my advice, have your self a nice, long, cool beer, maybe a cigar and a brandy to folow, sit back and relax. Who knows you might stop passing outdated, sanctimonious, moralistic judgements on others . Go on, you know it makes sense, who knows, you might even make a friend or two in the process.By the way, to all the comrades having a drink at lunch time during conference today, I will raise a glass to you.Piss artists of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your self esteem.
ALB wrote:ALB wrote:This is what happens if you don't send a photo. Mind you, in this case they didn't ask for one though they were sent our manifesto. Scroll down to Guildford West:http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/surrey-county-council-elections-who-12911967They have now updated this. I did send them the logo saying we'd prefer this to a photo, but they chose the photo (Alan should be pleased it's in colour, though I didn't expect it to be that big):http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/surrey-county-council-elections-who-12911967The statement is based on the Folkestone one and reads (for those who don't want to see the face):
Quote:“I am standing to raise the issue of the need for the shared and democratic ownership of the Earth’s resources, with all goods and services produced for use, rather than for profit.“The current crisis in social care in Surrey is a pressing example of why this change is necessary. Its root cause is today’s outdated system where finance determines what can, and cannot happen."Socialists suggest a better way. At a time when we can easily feed, house and care for every human on the planet, it no longer makes sense to use money to ration access to what we need, especially not to the needs of the most vulnerable.”"I am standing to make the point that local problems arise from the economic system of production for profit that exists everywhere and that they cannot be solved unless this system is replaced by one based on common ownership and democratic control of the means of production, and access for all to what they need on the basis of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs."That's great Adam. I've printed a copy off and put it in pride of place on the mantle piece, it'll scare the kids away from the fire.
rodmanlewis wrote:Tim Kilgallon wrote:I think to attempt to catagorise Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder/Attention Deficit Disorder as an invention of the American pharmaceutical industry, is naive. ADD/ADHD is as real and as potentially impactful as conditions such as autism, Asperger's Syndrome or Schizoprenia.These conditions are to some extent exaggerated because of the nature of class society, where the sufferers react to a hostile world in the only way they know how–by withdrawing from it. Non-sufferers make their lives more bearable by turning to drugs.
I think the idea that people with ADD/ADHD withdraw from society is laughable.
Dave B wrote:There is a massive legal pharmacology, get them hooked when young even when still in the womb , opiate based and ‘neural toxin’ anti depressant, Prozac, pill popping Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in the US.I think to attempt to catagorise Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder/Attention Deficit Disorder as an invention of the American pharmaceutical industry, is naive. ADD/ADHD is as real and as potentially impactful as conditions such as autism, Asperger's Syndrome or Schizoprenia.
