alanjjohnstone
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Isn't it conspiratorial, Stuart, to infer we all agreed with some of the opinions offered on the motives of Brand.My first personal observation was that it was yet another example of opting for the lesser evil, and repeated in a following message, scarcely subscribing to a conspiracy-dominated response.But you will note i do cuncur with the belief that he is not personally politically savvy if he cannot see through the "sincerity" of "Red Ed" if we take his reasons offered in his Trews at its word and don't go looking between the lines…I certainly think it raises not questions just for Brand but for ourself…How are we not treated as credible …At one time in history political parties such as we (and i now include broadly all those who at one time did propose socialism) were seen as a viable alternative…We will get 0.2% of the ballot (going on past elections)…Eugene Debs got 12% on a gerry-mandered suffrage…And the ILP seemed to have hit the right chords and that was a helluva long time ago…i don't think anyone votes for Galloway as a socialist so we can discount his popularity and success…I can be cynical as we all can be by saying …we seen them come …we seen them go…yet we still remain…And if you been following my pessimistic posts elsewhere, you know i don't hold out much of a future for that status either….we are heading towards extinction…to join the SLP…Unless we statrt asking questions and start getting answers…You always been quite pertinent in your critiques, even if you and i didn't agree…so i hope you will be one of other ex- and non-members who offer some input in a re-appraisal of our politics and its presentation…or have you missed the posts where i have been urging a special post-election conference to discuss not just the result but the core messages we should be giving.
Can i suggest that NERB make belated claim for that 500 quid and do a post-election advert in the Sunderland Echo (?)….along the lines …not all is lost …we are still here and not gone away…join the branch…Perhaps an ad the size of message 379 in the Folkestone Heraldhttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/world-socialist-movement/general-election-news-release?page=37#comment-22459It may actually get more of a response after the election in the sense if themed right, it shows that we are not merely a flash in the pan, nor that we only care about votes.
Perhaps Russell will elucidate sometime in the future of what has changed from the time of the Paxman interview and the date of the Miliband meeting, Stuart. Miliband's promises have never altered, AFAIK, from the time he was campaigning for the Labour leadership to now. And that should have been a bit of a lesson for Brand, when it comes to promises by a Labour politician.I'm not an expert but perhaps you can tell me what grassroots change from the bottom up and what listening has Miliband done within his own party once he got the top post. We saw how in the Grangemouth/Falkirk, Labour Party and Unite dispute , his was definitely not about enpowering the rank and file or even abiding by the Scottish Labour party hierarchy. He was elected on the back of the trade union vote and he is determined to weaken the union voice in Labour. So much for sincerity.If it made sense today then it made sense a year ago, two years ago…so perhaps we may discover why it was a road to Damascus conversion, but based upon…surely not a brief meeting with Miliband…ALB reckons it has been Owen Jones who has been the influence….I look forward to Brand's offering a timeline of the meetings he has held with Labour Party supporters…You and i know Miliband cannot fulfil the aspirations of the workers, cannot solve the problems of capitalism…and the caveat they both offer that it takes time, may defer the day of judgement to possibly even another term, but it will come when Brand must face reality…that those he supported struggling for a decent life…are still struggling, even though, to be very charitable, Miliband has did his best to offer the band-aids and mitigate their suffering. (Syriza may not be appropriate but we should take note of the limitations that election promises have)
A third of catholics would go green if the Pope instructed http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/a-third-of-catholics-would-go-green-if-pope-francis-makes-statement-on-climate-change-10222800.htmlSad in a way that so many require a religious edict to do the obvious. But to relate to the Rssell Brand thread on celebrity endorsement I wonder what would happen if the Pope suggested his "flock" join the SPGB All those Forms 'A' being rejected….
There is even a snippet of that snippet doing the rounds on the internethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Est6nay4Z5EI have suggested that we try the same with Kids Stuff…produce stand alone short clips from it
ChunkyMark on Russell Brand and Miliband…NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A98lzIdqcfg&feature=youtu.be
You make good points, YMS….except for this remark
Quote:Up until the point he joined the party, I'd distrust, and then I'd have doubts about using him as a speaker.I know you didn't mean to infer that there are categoraries of member, some different from others, and that you'd be prejudiced against the celebrities who joined (or is it merely a personal suspicion of Brand even if he applied and was accepted as a member) I'm sure Brand would be a credit to ourselves as a spokesperson….once he took the speakers test….
Mike Foster e-mail interview with The Oxford Student newspaperhttp://oxfordstudent.com/2015/05/04/oxford-west-and-abingdon-mike-foster-the-socialist-party-of-great-britain/
Quote:I don't think he would have met with Brand if he didn't already know thaat he would receive support. That would be follyI respectfully disagree. If the hand of friendship is spurned, it is not usually the person who hold out the hand who is blamed…Miliband always had the defence…that he tried but it was Brand who wouldn't listen…We will see a Prime Minister Miliband offers access to Brand to the corridors of power when Brand continues a campaign…but he will listen but not hear.I don't envisage though that Brand will follow in the footsteps of Geldof and Bono in the brown-nosing arse-licking they did for Blair and Bush but i may well be proved wrong.
Quote:A late member, as an aside, used to know JP gettyWould that be JP Getty the First, the Second or the Third, out of interest?
Yup, Victor…i confess to cluelessness …hence my pleas that we get together and think about it all…and leave no stone unturned…even a monument can be made to move if need be. It could be age getting to me but the trend is downwards….and that has to be reversed…We simply can't wait for history to help…and say , well, material conditions of the class struggle always leads to an eventual upswing and recite short periods from the labour movement's past …it's people that make history…and they are abdicating that responsibility of directing the changes to the ruling class and their interests.
I'm not one for conspiracies so i doubt it was pre-planned …however Miliband or his advisors are campaign savvy and even without being endorsed being seen seeking a dialogue with Brand was beneficial. Much more than what Miliband had hoped for. I think we never expected Brand to be so naive as to believe the soft-soap and drop all pretence of a principled position. I don't know if the joke is on him or on us but Miliband triumphed. He can now join with Billy Bragg, Eddie Izzard and go on the streets to plead for votes for Labour. But once again we face the situation that the promise of reforms…nay, not even those, but merely a promise that they would listen…was suffice to garner Brand's support. It matters little that he himself pledges to continue the resistance – he handed the loaded gun over to a class enemy and helped aim it at the working class…it matters little it will not be him who pulls the trigger. From now on, Brand's fingerprints are all over future Labour (and SNP) policies. We have to be sure to hold him accountable when the time comes and the consequences of his submission to the political party machine becomes evident.But as i said…it isn't the first time, nor the last time, workers have been forced into a corner where the options offered is cholera or the smallpox…and we have never managed to break through this barrier to understanding…It is all related to what's been said on the other threads …We need to begin to offer an effective opposition ourselves. This episode with Brand demonstrates the problem if we substitute a proxy.As i said, i'm here to learn if there is a way…a practical way that we can begin to apply
