Trump as president again?
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CDM wrote: ‘The Socialist Party has always said that within a limited capitalist democracy, a personal dictatorship and Fascism cannot be established…’
Didn’t Germany, Italy and Spain have ‘limited capitalist democracies’ in the ’30s? Anyone who has any doubt that Trump is a Fascist is burying their heads deep in the sand. The idea that Fascism was defeated in the 1940s has not been paying attention to regimes in South America and Africa etc., etc. Are you sure this denial is Party policy?Italy, Germany and Spain did not have the same solidified capitalist democracy as France, England and the USA during the 1930. They do have now, and Fascism can not be established in those countries in this epoch . Donald Trump has been limited on several of his attempt to establish his authoritarian measures.
From the Socialist Standard
One thing that Italy and Germany had in common was that they were relatively recent unified states, in 1870 and 1871 respectively. As a result, feelings of national unity were not as strong as in longer-established states such as Britain and France. The more virulent nationalism there reflected the ruling class’s need for a stronger central state that could overcome the remaining regionalist loyalties.In the case of Germany, its attempt in 1914 to get a place in the sun commensurate with its industrial and trading strength, inevitably at the expense of Britain and France which had carved out substantial colonial empires for themselves, had failed. But the problem remained for their capitalist class and any second attempt was going to be more aggressive because more desperate.
Fascism, then, in its proper sense was an inter-world-war historical phenomenon which is not going to repeat itself because the conditions of that time are not going to. In this sense classical fascism is not a threat. So why ‘anti-fascism’ today?
Why is it so easy for the US now to crush Cuba, after so many decades of “face off”?
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Capitalism has reached a new phase in our times, and the situation in Latin America has changed too, and Cuba has been squeezed more in our time than in prior epochs, and Cuban state capitalism is in a deeper crisis than in prior epoch too, and at the present time capitalism has removed its hypocritical masks of national sovereignty, human rights, and constitutional rights, and openly they are showing their own aims and interests against other countries, workers have elected leaders who do not care about those principles anymore, like in the case of the USA and Brasil, Trump openly has said that he is willing to depose and destroy cuba, and public said that he is going to destroy Iran, before there was not any president that was openly committed to those criminals threats .CDM – All I can say is that in June 2024 I had an article published in the Standard entitled ‘Fascism as Ideology’ which was a refutation of all that you write above and I received no criticism from the editors or the membership. So I think this is an ongoing debate rather than Party policy.
Obsession with “fascism” is a leftist, Leninist, obsession, to justify WW2 and wars of “national liberation” etc., all distracting the workers from the fact that it is capitalism that needs abolishing. “Fight fascism!” is yet another reformist slogan that trendy lefties are always spouting.
TM – I’m not responsible for what the left say and do however some of them also say: fight poverty, fight inequality and fight racism etc., which is something all socialists can agree with. My point is that fascism as an ideology is alive and well and was not destroyed in the 1940s. And since it can only flourish because of the failures of capitalism to deliver on its promises a critique of one is necessarily a critique of the other.
Critiquing fascism has never led to critiquing capitalism, but has hijacked the working class onto another reformist path. Far from representing workers’ interests, self-styled anti-fascists recently tried to obstruct an anti-war march in Germany because it was nationalist-led.
The fact is well known in the SPGB of the Communist Party of the 1940s critiquing us for opposing the war instead of enlisting “to fight fascism.”-
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TM – Do you accept that Fascism is an ideology that exists today? If you do then there’s no reason why we can’t subject it to the same criticism as we do with all other ideologies such as Liberalism, Leftist ideology, Nationalism, Conservatism etc., etc.
That topic was already discussed in this forum, and it was indicated that fascism is not an ideology and that communism is against all types of ideology.
Most articles on the SS indicated that Fascism/Nazism is a form of administering capitalism, and that the prevailing ideology in this society is the capitalist or bourgeois ideology. Ideology is a distortion of our reality and a false consciousness, and the prevailing ideas in any class society are the ideas of the ruling class.
Fascism and anti-fascism are an obsession of the left of capitalism, but they do not see that the main danger to mankind is capitalism. There is no fascism, and there are no fascists.
The main problem is capitalism, it is not fascism, and the main problem in the USA is not Donald Trump; it is capitalism, and he can be replaced by another warmonger, as it has been done in prior occasions, as Obama was called George Bush part 2 .
Nationalist protests and marches will never stop the war plans of the ruling class. Even more, an anti-war movement has never existed; they have always supported one side of the conflicts, as was the case with the Vietnam War, and the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, many left wings are supporting their reactionary leaders, the so-called patriotic war of the soviet union.
The Socialist Party had many confrontations and difficulties during World War II because our idea was that anti fascism was not the correct tactic, but the most important one was the struggle against capitalism. Stalinists and Trotskyists gave us a hard time, and the SP had a public debate with fascists
I stick to my gun that Fascism is ultra nationalism and apologism of the dictatorship of a single party, and it was a particular phenomenon adopted by German and Italian capitalism, and based on the present economic reality of those two countries, fascism and nazis will not be established again
CDM – All I can say is that in June 2024, I had an article published in the Standard entitled ‘Fascism as Ideology,’ which was a refutation of all that you write about, ve and I received no criticism from the editors or the membership. So I think this is an ongoing debate rather than Party policy.
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There are articles in the SS which in some way refute certain prevailing principles of the socialist party, and the editors have published them, but most articles in the SS support the general principles of the Socialist Party. In this forum, there are members of the socialist party who some time refutes certain ideas of the socialist party too. On Facebook, some members of the Socialist Party have had certain disagreements
When Trump is gone in three years, the same cycle of wars and crises and despoliation and pollution and holocausts on nature will continue under another President, Republican or Democrat, and that has nothing to do with Fascism (a dead Italian movement), but everything to do with modern capitalism.
Similar protests will continue after Trump is forgotten, and leftists will still be shouting about “fascism” and activists of every type protesting about this and that: and still ignoring and poo-pooing our message. And so it goes on.TM – It’s quite possible that Trump will die soon (he’s not a well man) and Vance will take over. I believe him to be more dangerous than Trump so your contention that US fascism will die with Trump is unfounded. I don’t care what leftists shout about but unlike you I can’t see any evidence that fascism is dead – quite the opposite as it goes from strength to strength all over the world. I don’t understand this irrational denial that fascism still exists and that we shouldn’t bother to counter its ideology. We deconstruct every other ideology out there so why not this one?
CDM – I do agree that there are dissenting voices in the Party but I think that that’s a good thing as it proves we’re not a monolithic sectarian organization. I strongly disagree that the denial of the existence of contemporary fascism is in any way a ‘general principle’ of the socialist party.
Vance would still only have the rest of Trump’s term. Anyway, that is irrelevant, since capitalism determines how politicians act, not themselves.
There would have been a Second world war even if Hitler had never been born. Napoleon was more of a materialist than you when he said, “If not me, then someone else.”
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